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Thread: Buddhist monks in the Japanese Imperial Army

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    Default Buddhist monks in the Japanese Imperial Army

    Ok, this might seem a bit morbid, but while watching 'Men behind the Sun 4 - the Nanking Massacre' (not one of the most pleasant movies I've seen) I saw a Japanese monk that was cutting off the lower arms of fallen Chinese soldiers. The subtitle stated that he was responsible in some way of the disposal of dead bodies.Can anyone explain to me why a buddhist would undertake such a responsibility?

    PS: I do not want to stir up a debate about Japanese atrocities/war crimes or anything like that whatsoever.

    Thanks
    Remi Vredeveldt

    "Hysterical knowledge is often mistaken for historical knowledge"

    Boni enim duces non aperto proelio, in quo est commune periculum, sed ex occulto semper adtemptant Vegetius Liber III, 9:5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    I saw a Japanese monk that was cutting off the lower arms of fallen Chinese soldiers.
    Huh? Lower arms?

    Interesting observation anyway. I look forward to someone with more knowledge than I to step in =P
    -John Nguyen

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    Sorry, silly mistake. I mean to say: the lower half of the arm (radius et ulna bones).
    Remi Vredeveldt

    "Hysterical knowledge is often mistaken for historical knowledge"

    Boni enim duces non aperto proelio, in quo est commune periculum, sed ex occulto semper adtemptant Vegetius Liber III, 9:5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    I saw a Japanese monk that was cutting off the lower arms of fallen Chinese soldiers. The subtitle stated that he was responsible in some way of the disposal of dead bodies.Can anyone explain to me why a buddhist would undertake such a responsibility?
    Well, I suggest that you start exploring the history of Buddhism in Japan if you want to understand the answer to your question. But to makes things short and easy, I recommend that you read 'Zen at war' by Brian Victoria and for a general view of the whole history of religion in Japan I suggest you get a copy of 'A history of Japanese religion'. You can also check this link out for a very brief explanantion(or answer) to your question. http://www.mandala.hr/5/baran.html

    Here are the links to the two books that I mentioned.

    Zen at war- http://www.amazon.com/Zen-War-Brian-.../dp/0742539261

    A history of Japanese religion- http://www.amazon.com/History-Japane.../dp/4333019176

    Even today, Japanese Buddhism is very much diluted from what Buddhism is actually supposed to be. Buddhism in Japan is all pretty on the outside e.g. the beauty of temples and the way they are taken care of, or preserved , the ceremonies, etc... Don't get me wrong though. There are still some real followers that keep the tradition real, study and train hard in buddhism but, they are certainly not the all-mesmerizing old kuso-bozu that wear 30 000$ kesa, pick their nose and charge ridiculous amounts of money for funerals.
    Tom Karazozis
    °®«ΛιΘ -Kanshiketsu!

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    Dear Tom,

    Thank you for your reply! This is, and will be, very interesting reading. Parts of it remind me of the discussion inside the Roman Catholic Church about the religious legitimacy of crusades.
    Remi Vredeveldt

    "Hysterical knowledge is often mistaken for historical knowledge"

    Boni enim duces non aperto proelio, in quo est commune periculum, sed ex occulto semper adtemptant Vegetius Liber III, 9:5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    Sorry, silly mistake. I mean to say: the lower half of the arm (radius et ulna bones).
    Not a mistake at all.

    Although "upper arm and forearm" is a more common usage in English, "upper arm and lower arm" is also perfectly accepatable.

    The latter also is consistant, since most people use "upper leg and lower leg" rather than "upper leg and foreleg" when refering to human anatomy.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens View Post
    Not a mistake at all.

    Although "upper arm and forearm" is a more common usage in English, "upper arm and lower arm" is also perfectly accepatable.

    The latter also is consistant, since most people use "upper leg and lower leg" rather than "upper leg and foreleg" when refering to human anatomy.
    I did some wiki-work (yes, I'm lazy): it seems that "forearm" is actually some translated 'gallicism', since in Germanic languages as German and Dutch and Norwegian, it is a "lower/under" arm.

    Thanks for the clarification Brian
    Remi Vredeveldt

    "Hysterical knowledge is often mistaken for historical knowledge"

    Boni enim duces non aperto proelio, in quo est commune periculum, sed ex occulto semper adtemptant Vegetius Liber III, 9:5

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    Hey Guys,

    Just FWIW, most of the information available talks largely about Zen and war. In the West many people equate Zen with Japanese Buddhism, but as I am sure you are aware there are many "brands" of Buddhism equally, and more, popularly followed in Japan. Most of the major players (organizations) were completely "on board" with the war effort which isn't too surprising if one considers that if they weren't "on board" they would have been censured like the Omoto Kyo was. Since an organization's ususal focus is the preservation/propagation of the organization rather than on individual development/exploration it shouldn't be surprising that organizations usually act along those same lines . . . maybe disappointing, but not surprising.

    As far as the Buddhists (These guys may have been newly minted just for the job. Shave their heads, Put on the costume. Presto-Change-O, Instant Buddhist Priest Corp.) out "tending" to the dead is concerned, as it has been mentioned already, in Japan funerals are a primary role for Buddhist priests. I have no idea what they were doing, and as I said they may have only been associated with Buddhism by appearance only. However, could they have been preparing the bodies for cremation? Usually a body is cremated and then some bones are picked out from the ashes.

    On the other hand, considering the general treatment given to those "liberated" by the Japanese Imperial Army I'd be a bit surprised if they bothered with the niceties normally given a Japanese fallen soldier.
    Allen Beebe

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    Dear Allen,

    It wasn't some preparation as far as I could see in the movie. Just collecting forearms. Clothed like this
    Remi Vredeveldt

    "Hysterical knowledge is often mistaken for historical knowledge"

    Boni enim duces non aperto proelio, in quo est commune periculum, sed ex occulto semper adtemptant Vegetius Liber III, 9:5

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    Strange!!!!!!!!!
    Allen Beebe

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    Obviously Ninja in disguise!!!
    Doug Walker
    Completely cut off both heads,
    Let a single sword stand against the cold sky!

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    Oh no not you!

    At least you didn't make a joke about how they were a bunch of monks that mistakenly thought that they were told to collect "arms" instead of "alms." Or, some folks will do anything for a free "hand-out."

    Moderator! MODERATOR! Are you going to let Walker get away with this????
    Allen Beebe

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    ...and nothing about samsara being "hand to mouth" existence.

    Maybe they were collecting them to give to Daruma who has a demonstrated weakness for severed arms.
    Doug Walker
    Completely cut off both heads,
    Let a single sword stand against the cold sky!

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    I'm surprised that others aren't up in arms about the tasteless sense of humor demonstrated here. Clearly this situation is getting out of hand.
    Allen Beebe

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    Maybe they are making sure their opponent was 'armless.
    -John Nguyen

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