Ippon-dori, Jutte-jutsu, Takeda Sokaku, & Kuroda Tetsuzan

[TimothyKleinert]

Gawd, this post touches a number of subjects, and I really had no idea where I should put it. So I put here in the general koryu section. Please bare with me...
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I came across this video of Kuroda Tetsuzan today: "Kuroda Sensei kenjutsu part 2". The clip shows a number of, what at first appears to be (there's a twist coming), shoto vs tachi kata.

The kata are all variations on a theme, but what caught my eye---as a student of Daito-ryu---was how VERY Ippon-dori-esque the kata were. In both Ippon-dori (the "first" and arguably "greatest" kata of Daito-ryu) and the Komagawa Kaishin-ryu kata (Kuroda's kenjutsu style), the basic response is the same: Shitachi/nage "dives" under the incoming sword, blocking/shielding with one hand and grabbing uchitachi's arm/hand with the other (and in many of the variations, re-directs the sword & arms).

It had been my understanding that Ippon-dori was based on a Itto-ryu shoto kata, though I haven't seen the original version. So it shouldn't seem too odd to see similar kata. But it was intriguing that similar kata should show up in Kuroda's style. First, and somewhat superficially, because Kuroda is often described as having "aiki-like" movements.

But the second reason I thought it was interesting is more historical. I was under the impression that Komagawa Kaishin-ryu was derived from the Shinkage line of kenjutsu, which I thought was a different "family" of kenjutsu than Itto-ryu. So it seemed strange that they would share similar kata.

I know Sokaku studied a bunch of kenjutsu styles, and was known for an eclectic, highly personalized sword-technique, but Ippon-dori is based on an Itto-ryu kata... right? I found this video of Ono-ha Itto-ryu, which shows a vaguely similar kata, but it's not conclusive.

But I started thinking, "maybe it's just me, I haven't been exposed to many shoto kata." I started wondering if this type of thing---diving towards uchitachi and/or grabbing his arms---was a common shoto response across styles.

Now, though, comes that twist I promised---as I re-watched the video, I realized the shoto wasn't a shoto at all---it's a jutte. It's hard to tell, but if you watch the video on full screen, around ~0:12 the camera zooms in and you can see the... err, guard-arm(?) when shitachi(?) places the jutte behind his back.

This was also intriguing. The jutte is still listed as one of the weapons of the Komagawa Kaishin-ryu, so I guess the Shinkage-Itto thing is still an issue... I guess...

But this was also intriguing in light of Takeda Sokaku. The jutte is certainly a part of Don Angier's Yanagi-ryu (which has a historical link to Takeda), but more significantly, there has been some mention of the jutte in relation to Daito-ryu.

But as I was looking up info on the jutte and Daito-ryu, I came upon a video of Ikkaku-ryu juttejutsu. D@mn if that also doesn't look like Ippon-dori! In particular, it's very reminiscent how shitachi(?) pushes back on uchitachi's arm (particularly with the jutte positioned at the hip, poised to strike), forcing him off-balance as he retreats (re-watch that video of Ippon-dori).
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So where am I going with this? I don't know! Can anyone help me make sense of this all (or just part of it)? Am I making a mountain out of a mole-hill? Is Ippon-Dori a rather "generic" technique, after all?

Thanks!

[John Bullard]

Hi Timothy,

I asked Kuroda Sensei about your question, and he said that first, the jutte kata in Komagawa Kaishin Ryu were not learned by Komagawa from Kamiizumi Nobutsuna in Shinkage Ryu. They were added to the curriculum by the second soke of the style, Sakurada. Kuroda Sensei has no idea where Sakurada got the kata from.

Second, Kuroda Sensei said that the principles in the jutte kata do come from old koryu principles that some of the old koryu shared originally as good, basic ideas/forms.

So basically, it could be that the similarities could come from a shared basis in old koryu principles, or that Sakurada learned the kata from Itto Ryu/another style that taught the same forms. We don't have the records to say anymore than that.

So, unless the Itto Ryu/Daito Ryu folks have anything else to add, as the saying goes, "you pays your money and makes your choice".

[lucky1899]

Tim,

I have seen techniques similar to ippondori in many schools. I cannot write with 100% certainty so this is just my opinion based on my experience.

I believe that ippondori is a great example of "entering". Because entering/controlling/joining/uprooting your opponent's center is a concept/principle in various arts, I would contend that you are probably just seeing the "generic-ness" of entering (ippon-dori) in the videos you clipped.

With regards to the jutte, Kondo put a QUEST video out on DRAJJ where he shows a picture of a jutte Sokaku Takeda carried around. It seems Takeda's belongings were, of course, kept by Tokimune and Kondo has some of them; Takuma Hisa and the Kodo family also have items once carried by Sokaku. So it would seem Sokaku definitely "knew" the jutte but where he learned it is unknown to me.

Best of luck in your search...

Regards,

A. De Luna
Daito Ryu

[Kendoguy9]

Dear Tim et al,

I don't think the ippondori movement is very unique nor is it an "Itto-ryu only" technique. Two similar kodachi techniques exist in both Jikishinkage-ryu kenjutsu (kisaki gaeshi and tsuba jiri) and Yagyu Shinkage-ryu kenjutsu (I don't know any kata names in this ryu). There is a limited number of things you can do (or would want to do) with a kodachi. The last kodachi kata of Mizoguchi-ha Itto-ryu is also kind of similar (around 3:50 in this clip: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=1). There is also a similar kata in Shingyoto-ryu (around 1:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACmAl...eature=related).

I think the Itto-ryu clip you posted is the same kata that ippondori was supposed to come from. My thought on why the entry looks so different is that Itto-ryu tends to be a chudan style of fencing while Jikishinkage-ryu tends to be a jodan style of fencing (to steal some kendo terms). In Itto-ryu there seems to be a lot of methods for breaking chudan. I think the entry to this Itto-ryu technique is the way it is, to teach how to enter on chudan. Jikishinkage-ryu tends to be a bit more agressive and plays jodan and hasso in many kata (http://www.kashimashindenjikishinkageryu.com/kata.html). If memory serves Takeda Sokaku sensei learned the virtues of the jodan kamae used in Jiki while fighting several guys with yari (I think they were the same dudes that knocked his teeth out!).

The Ikkaku-ryu jutte kata that you posted is also similar to the thrid kodachi kata in the Zen Nipon Kendo Renmei set, although the shidachi never lifts the arm up, he still controls the elbow. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egi2Qz1KwOY)

I think this is all interesting stuff. The basic principles are all the same but each ryu does it a little different. Maybe ippondori is unique because it contains so many of the different principles all wrapped up in one (enter on the up-swing, lift/off-balance, control the elbow, etc.)?

Andrew, I haven't seen the Quest DVD in a while now. Mine got packed up when I moved a few years ago and I haven't been able to dig it out. If memory serves again it wasn't a jutte that Kondo sensei has, but a yamatozue, an unusual weapon that was taught by Sakakibara sensei. The yamatozue is a jo with a jutte prong. As far as I know there are no surviving kata to use the weapon. Sakakibara sensei sold them for a while (he had to make a living as an unemployed samurai somehow I guess). I have a feeling a young Takeda sensei got suckered into buying a few of them.

Best regards,

[lucky1899]

I can't upload a screenshot into this window but at 5:20 minutes into the QUEST video there is a picture of a jutte and over it is the word "jutte". Kondo speaks regarding Sokaku teaching different students different techniques based on their body. Right before the jutte, their is a photo of Sokaku's iron fan.

Yours in Budo,

Andrew De Luna

[TimothyKleinert]

Thanks everyone for the info! Interesting stuff...