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Thread: Shield use in koryu

  1. #16
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    Originally posted by glad2bhere
    Still there seems to be a real effort to represent the sword as having more influence than it did. Strange.
    Reverence for the sword goes way back into Japan's prehistory. The sword had ritualistic use as well as combat use, and the sword (in this case the ancient tsurugi) forms part of the Three Sacred Regalia of the Chrysanthemum Throne.

    The bow may have been the preferred weapon of the military in pre-Edo times, but the sword was an object of awe and mystery.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  2. #17
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    Default Shield use in koryu

    Were shields used in ancient Japanese warfare? I have been looking/reading about JMA and warfare in old Japan and I have not really seen any mention of the use of the shield anywhere. If not, then what is the reasoning/story behind the de-emphasis on shield work?
    --Kieun Kim

  3. #18
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    There is some reference. See:

    Tinpe and Rotin
    Respectfully
    Mark W. Swarthout, Shodan

  4. #19
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    Thanks, but that site mainly refers to Okinawan history and warfare. And the type of shield I was thinking of was more long the lines of what you'd find in European/Middle Eastern arms and armor from the classical periods to medieval. I am curious about sheilds as they pertain to Japanese military history - i.e. you don't really see much reference, if any, about samurai using shields of any kind during any period prior to Tokugawa when the whole country was often at war in some part or another.
    --Kieun Kim

  5. #20
    David_Teczely Guest

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    What I know they used shields. They where big wooden constructions with a "support-stick" that made it standing freely. wich gave the footsoldier the opportunity to stand behind and fire his musket or shoot with your bow. The shields was not of the type that you carry around on your arm for parrying purposes. They where more similar to the type that where used by bowmen in europe. Many shields could form a shieldwall or make an extra protection in a trench or similar.

  6. #21
    xensu Guest

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    I asked my teacher - said bead shields were used made of volcanic materials - volcanic ash I think for the beads. It could also be used as an abacus. It was mostly used by the ainu. I have'nt practiced any technique with it yet but hopefully will later.

  7. #22
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    Xensu, sign your real name or the moderatore may well delete your account. Forum rules. BTW I couldn't see any info on your MA or your name in the profile.
    What MA do you practice?
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  8. #23
    xensu Guest

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    Jock - I practice Aizu O Dome. It's an underground art so I did'nt bother to put it in my profile.

  9. #24
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    I had a feeling that the subject of shields had been discussed before. I did a quick search and found this old thread. This is by far the best thread about shields.

    http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...hlight=Shields
    Ville Penttilä

    Internet is a vast liberal plot to destroy humanity and make the entire Earth blow up like a gigantic cake crammed full of homosexuals and foreigners

  10. #25
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    Default Shield?

    I recently read something that made me think a bit. It was out of the 35 articles Musashi wrote on swordmanship. In the one article subtitled "naming my fencing style the two-sword style", it has the following line.

    If a man were galloping along a narrow path near a river or if he were in a battle crowded with samurai, he would hold his shield in his left hand, thus restricting the free use of that hand.

    Shield?

    I know shields have been discussed on this forum before but this seemed a bit weird. To which shields would he be refering to? As far as I know there were no handheld shields used as such. I know there were the sort of barricade fortification shields used as cover for arrows, but these weren't handheld. Perhaps I am mistaken. Just wondering.

    BTW the quote was taken from here:
    http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/8187/Niten.htm

    Any ideas anyone?
    Louis

  11. #26
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    He might just have meant the short sword in his left hand [being the weapon mostly used to parry] as being his "shield". I think I've read the same translation as you- I was a bit confused by that. However, I have seen a an Edo period print showing a mounted, armoured samurai shooting a horse pistol, carrying an object in his left hand as a buckler which looks like a square shoulder guard from a yoroi as a shield. Shields were used way back in the early Nara period, as were short double edged swords. Very mediterenean looking.
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  12. #27
    rurouni69 Guest

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    Hi!

    Just to put my two cents in, I think that it doesn't necessarily pertain to any martial arts, like he said

    qoute:

    Because I hold two swords, I call my fencing style two-sword swordsmanship. Holding a sword in my left hand [as well as my right] implies nothing special...

    If a MAN were galloping along a narrow path near a river or if he were in a battle crowded with samurai, he would hold his shield in his left hand, thus restricting the free use of that hand...

    [Without training] he will feel that sword inordinately heavy. Only when a man has experience and is accustomed to wielding a sword with one hand [can he excel in battle.] When an archer becomes experienced by shooting arrows in training, his shooting ability soars.

    I think he was just trying to get a point across. See what I mean?
    Well, that's my 2-cents.

  13. #28
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    The translation is faulty. Nothing in the original Japanese suggests "shield."
    William Bodiford
    Professor
    Dept. of Asian Languages & Cultures
    UCLA

  14. #29
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    I suspected as much- what is the actual Japanese / translation? I haven't tried to read it in the original vernacular- my kanji skills being what they are.............
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  15. #30
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    Rather than a translation, I will give you a "reading" or interpretation that conveys what the text would say if it were written more clearly. I am not sure how much of the first sentence is being negated, and I do not have time this year to read more of the text to gain a better sense of how it uses negative statements. Except for the first sentence, I think the rest of this reading is very reliable.

    ===========
    Number 1: Why I call This Style the "Two Sword Method"

    I call this style the "two sword method" not because carrying two swords implies wielding a sword with the left hand, but because I want learn how to wield a sword with only one hand [i.e., only my right hand]. There are many times when being able to use a sword with only one hand would be advantageous, such as when holding a gunbai ["war fan"], riding a horse, forging a river, walking on a narrow path or climbing over rocky terrain, when surrounded by people, or when running fast (etc.). If you are holding a weapon or other item in your left hand, then even if you would prefer otherwise, you have no choice but to wield your sword with only your right hand. [People might object, saying that a sword is too heavy and awkward to use in only one hand. It is true that] when first taking up the sword [with the right hand alone] it does feel heavy, but with time one can learn to use it freely. [It is the same as when learning any other physical task.] For example, someone who learns how to shoot a bow becomes able to handle a stronger bow, someone who learns how to ride a horse becomes able to handle a stronger mount. It is likewise with the tasks of manual laborers, such as the boatman who becomes strong enough to handle an oar and rudder or the farmer who becomes strong at using a hoe and rake. If you practice using a sword, then you develop the strength to handle it. Nonetheless, depending on one's level of strength, one should select a sword of a weight and length that matches one's physical abilities.
    ============

    I hope this is helpful.
    William Bodiford
    Professor
    Dept. of Asian Languages & Cultures
    UCLA

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