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Thread: Combat Ki Masters? Juko Kai?

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    Default Combat Ki Masters? Juko Kai?

    Hi there! This is my first post here. I got a username password just to ask this one question. ( excuse me if this is not the right forum to ask it. )

    There is an entire page here dedicated to debunking Combat Ki and its founder. Since I don't know those people and have no basis for comparison I have to agree your webpage does a very credible job in discrediting Combat Ki. The evidence SEEMS pretty strong against them.

    But even if they have no lineage and have lied about several things from military record and others...watching the videos on YouTube is pretty impressive.

    Football players and professional MMA fighters punching these guys directly in the throat! I want to learn that! How can one not even get injured by the attack?!

    My question is this: Even if everything your website says is true ( about lies and lack of true lineage ) how many people can demonstrate that level of Iron Shirt/Body or Golden Armor training?

    As far as I can tell, mostly just some Shaolin monks and mostly just in China. Yes, there are a few exceptions...but these Combat Ki guys have a whole group who are able to demonstrate this kind of Iron Shirt/Golden Armor Kung Fu.

    So how is this done? I heard something about building your chi and imagining it exploding in white light at the point of impact?

    I have heard many people claim it is nothing more than effective pain management...I don't think that is entirely true. If it were just pain management, then why no bruises, black & blue or even redness & swelling? Why no broken bones?

    If you really don't like/accept Combat Ki then who else can teach this stuff?

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    Assuming for a moment that no parlour tricks are involved, the biggest single flaw in the combat-ki stuff is that they have to stand there gathering their "ki" and preparing to take the hit - not exactly useful from a combative point of view.

    At the risk of going off on a tangent - if you are interested in the whole body-conditioning/iron shirt/internal skills thing, you might want to check out the "Dan Harden - body conditioning" thread. It's a lot more interesting than the combat-ki stuff.

    Oh, and welcome to e-budo!
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    If you really don't like/accept Combat Ki then who else can teach this stuff?

    There are lots of people out there with some degree of skill like this, it really isn't that weird, hell Houdini was famous for similar things lol.

    The difference I think is whether someone can take these "internal" skills and translate them into actual application in martial arts, rather than just parlor tricks.
    Zachariah Zinn

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    For years, this stuff has been taught within Goju, Uechi, & Kyokushin, using Sanchin Shime. I've also seen some Kobayashi guys doing Shime, using Naihanchi. It's nothing new, & really has nothing to do w/ Ki, IMO. It more has to do w/ knowing your body well, & knowing how to use it.

    David

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    Default thanks for the reply

    Hi Guys, thanks for the replies!

    A couple of questions...

    first to Mike Williams:
    Assuming for a moment that no parlour tricks are involved, the biggest single flaw in the combat-ki stuff is that they have to stand there gathering their "ki" and preparing to take the hit - not exactly useful from a combative point of view.
    How do you know that there is no way to do this reactively in combat? For example in the most basic beginning bagua strike drills of shaking palms, according to Park Bok Nam, one practices the gathering of qi and discharging it with every single strike repetitively. Then after training this was for a sufficient length of time, one begins training the 48 months palms in the same way. If one doesn't try to rush the 48 months palms training by the completion of this training at a rate of one new palm per every 6 months or so, one eventually develops the ability to empower every single Bagua strike with qi and to send qi to the palms reflexively, in combat, without having to think about it.

    Thus, by the same logic, I imagine it must be possible to do the same with Iron Body, if indeed it is not just a parlor trick.

    PS: I know for a fact that the qi to the palms thing is real from direct experience. What I don't know is if the Golden Bell Armor and Iron Shirt training with qi is also for real.

    To Dave Sommers:
    For years, this stuff has been taught within Goju, Uechi, & Kyokushin, using Sanchin Shime. I've also seen some Kobayashi guys doing Shime, using Naihanchi.
    Um...yeah. I know this is E-Budo.com and not e-KungFu.com but I speak Chinese not Japanese...and not very well at that! I have no clue what your words mean?!

    What is "Shime"? and what does it mean to use "Sanchin Shime"? or "Naihanchi" for that matter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Keyes View Post

    There is an entire page here dedicated to debunking Combat Ki and its founder. Since I don't know those people and have no basis for comparison I have to agree your webpage does a very credible job in discrediting Combat Ki. The evidence SEEMS pretty strong against them.
    Dear James, not to offend you, but there is more than 'one page'. There are several threads (with hundreds of posts in total) about this topic. As far as I can tell, its all parlour tricks, a charade. And mind you, if I come across people that seem strange or a " little too internal", I ask to be shown. Up front and honest. Regrettably, I still am to meet a juko kai-thingy

    But even if they have no lineage and have lied about several things from military record and others...
    Not a definitive proof of guilt, but a strong warning signal that fraud is being committed nonetheless.

    (...) watching the videos on YouTube is pretty impressive.
    Exactly, videos can and are manipulated. Some people call it 'editing', but that is a too positive term for it. Here is a beauty with Dillman

    My question is this: Even if everything your website says is true ( about lies and lack of true lineage ) how many people can demonstrate that level of Iron Shirt/Body or Golden Armor training?
    Dont have yourself tempted by wishful thinking: it's a charade.

    I have heard many people claim it is nothing more than effective pain management...I don't think that is entirely true. If it were just pain management, then why no bruises, black & blue or even redness & swelling? Why no broken bones?
    You're already halfway. Note: the sanchin shime (sanchin testing) yields bruises, redness and swelling for exemple. Because it's real.
    If you really don't like/accept Combat Ki then who else can teach this stuff?
    You can always find a charlatan down the road. But please, for the sake of your own time, money and effort: don't.
    Remi Vredeveldt

    "Hysterical knowledge is often mistaken for historical knowledge"

    Boni enim duces non aperto proelio, in quo est commune periculum, sed ex occulto semper adtemptant Vegetius Liber III, 9:5

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