Jigen Ryu Syllabus

[taichi4eva]

Hello,

I was wondering what are the main points of Satsuma Jigen Ryu. I have heard that they focus mostly on suburi and striking trees. Do practitioners practice kata? The reason why I ask is if I am to imagine someone coming on aggressively, yelling and screaming, swinging a large sword, I don't know how useful slow, predetermined kata practice would be. What other drills does Jigen Ryu focus on?

Viet Le

[Max Chouinard]

you surely have a nice opinion on kata. Here's something that could answer your question (if you are reffering to Jigen ryu Heiho that is):

http://www.jigen-ryu.com/siryou/web.mov

[DDATFUS]

Jigen Ryu practices a number of kata. Their tree-striking practice seems to aim at developing proper form, strong kiai, and good distance control as a foundation before students move on to studying kata. I rather suspect that many old schools had similar "basic training" in the old days.

As far as kata go, the kata of Jigen Ryu that I've seen (only on video, I'm afraid) look fairly standard. They practice a version of Enpi that has interesting parallels to the Enpi practiced by Yagyu Shinkage Ryu (apparently the founder of Jigen Ryu learned Enpi from Taisha Ryu, founded by a student of Kamiizumi). Their more advanced kata appear to be very brief and direct, but loaded with meaning-- I find them to be a bit similar to the original, armored version of Yagyu Shinkage Ryu's Sangakuen, which are very simple, short kata (in contrast to the longer and more complex kata practiced, say, at the omote level of KSR).

With regards to your comment on "slow, predetermined kata," you might want to do some more research. Watch a video of Otake Sensei of Katori Shinto Ryu or of Tetsuzan Kuroda Sensei of Komagawa Kaishin Ryu and I challenge you to call their practice "slow." Kata are pre-arranged, but they are also subject to change. You might practice a kata the same way five or six hundred times, and then just when you are getting comfortable with rote movements, your instructor will throw something unexpected at you to test your reactions and to force you to pay attention. Properly done, kata are always "alive" and full of real intent. They don't teach practitioners a series of rote responses to a particular attack-- "He comes in like this so you do this this and this"-- but rather teach the practitioner to appreciate distance, timing, openings, and proper mentality.

If you ever think that kata training wouldn't work, please remember that kata training has been proven to work. All kenjutsu schools that I know of practice kata, and have for centuries. If kata didn't work, they wouldn't have been practiced. Swordsmen who trained in kata would have died in battle rather than surviving to found their own schools. To put it another way, if "slow, predetermined" kata are not good training for battle, why did so many men who were veterans of the battlefield teach their students using kata, and why did their students, after getting back from their own battles, continue to use kata?

[ZealUK]

Jigen Ryu training consists of suburi, tategi uchi (striking a tree) and kata practice.

Jigen Ryu Enpi is not really directly related to Yagyu Ryu. It bears a link to Taisha Ryu, but the main focus of the kata is the creation of Togo Chui.

[DDATFUS]

Jigen Ryu Enpi is not really directly related to Yagyu Ryu. It bears a link to Taisha Ryu, but the main focus of the kata is the creation of Togo Chui.

Well, I didn't say they were directly related-- I guess if the founder of Jigen Ryu studied Taisha Ryu, and the founder of Taisha Ryu studied under Kamiizumi, who also taught the Yagyu, that would make Jigen Ryu and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu something like second cousins, at best? If you say that the main focus of the Jigen Ryu enpi is original to Togu Chui, then I believe you-- you have access to much better sources of information as far as Jigen Ryu goes, after all.

I do stand by the statement that there are interesting parallels between the Yagyu version of enpi and enpi as practiced by Jigen Ryu-- I don't mean to say that the two are identical at the omote level or that they have the same ura meaning, but simply that if you watch them both back-to-back you occasionally see a hint of something familiar between the two.

[ZealUK]

Well I suppose it's possible to see some similarities if you look at them side by side. I don't really know much about Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Enpi, so I'll take your word for that. We did do embu right after them last year at the Kagoshima Kobudo Taikai, but I don't really remember too well.

Togo Chui did learn Taisha Ryu from two of Marume Kurando's students (Adzuma/Higashi Gonuemon Masanao and Fujii Rokuyata Tsugunaga) but the main influence on Jigen Ryu Hyoho was Tenshinsho Jigen Ryu. Enpi is designed to teach those techniques however the uchidachi (dashi) side is based on Taisha Ryu.

As an interesting aside Chui did have a match against two Yagyu Shinkage Ryu swordsmen.

In 1622元和八, at the age of 62, Chui was summoned to Edo in order to take part in a duel with two members of the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu　Fukumachi Shichirozaemon 福町七郎左衛門 and Terada Naosuke 寺田尚助. Chui defeated both men. Both Fukumachi and Terada wrote a formal oath to learn under Chui, however Fukumachi was so badly injured that he died the same night as he signed the agreement. Terada followed Chui as far as Osaka, but was unable to travel to Satsuma.

[taichi4eva]

I am sorry, everyone. I didn't mean to offend anyone by making that comment about kata practice. Again, I am sorry.

Viet Le

[DDATFUS]

I didn't mean to offend anyone by making that comment about kata practice.

Don't worry, Viet, I don't think anyone was offended-- we just get a lot of people around here who are sure that kata aren't an effective training tool, and it's a debate most of us have had before. If I came across as upset I apologize; that wasn't my intention.

Alex, thanks for sharing both the information about your school and the story about Togo Chui. He must have been a pretty tough old guy to win those duels at that age-- but from the little I've seen of Jigen Ryu, I have no trouble believing the story. There is a bit of footage on youtube of a Jigen Ryu instructor-- I it's y'all's previous headmaster?-- and his technique looks pretty damn sharp. After viewing the video, I gave him a prominent place on my mental list of people that I wouldn't want to mess with.