Legends and high rankings

[Howard Quick]

Hi All,
I'm curious. Does anybody train with or know of 'O'Sensei' Phil Porter?
There was a recent newspaper article in one of our local papers in which it mentions him as a MA legend. The article is about a guy named David Franklin being graded to 9th Dan in Jujutsu as well as a couple of others. One of which was graded to 6th from 5th...which he was graded to just last year.
All these gradings handed out by Mr. Porter.
Any background info?

[MarkF]

...in his own mind.

He actually is a legend and the opinions run from calling him "The American Kodokan" to an old judo player previously active in establishing the US Judo Association, the largest judo sanctioning body in the country. He also led it to the brink of bankruptcy, began secretly selling memberships and ranking licenses to people in other martial arts, some being a bit iffy, and was finally ejected from the USJA after being its COO until 1995. He then formed the USMAA or US Martial Arts Association. Recently, the BOD of the USMAA made him a 10-dan on his 80th birthday and he has been called "O-Sensei" by devotees for quite some time." And Yes, I have met him several times and have played some lazy randori with him. It is difficult to judge his judo skills and is someone best avoided unless one wants recognition as founder of one's own new form of budo, or higher grades. For Judo, the other legitimate organizations (USJF and USJI) will recognize judo grades from Porter for limited purposes.

Porter was once a well-respected judoka, if not the best on the mat, but it was supposedly his teaching skills which made him well known along with the forming of the USJA in a lawsuit against the USJF (formerly the JBBF).

If it sounds complicated it really isn't. Money is the top priority, and even though the USJA lost millions while he was its chief operating officer, they did not bring civil or criminal charges against him after ejecting him as soon as the losses became known. Current leaders (of the USJA) hold nothing back in judging Mr. Porter as the reason for its financial woes which have been turning around in the last few years under the stewardship of James Bregman, an Olympic medal winner.


His web site is located at http://www.mararts.org . Do a search using porter's name or his organization here on E-budo and a list of threads should come up.

This was just for you, Howard, and probably will answer others with a link to the pages of threads where his is mentioned. You sure you did not know anything about him before reading the article in the newspaper?


Anyway, best regards to you,


Mark

[Michael-H]

A quick search identifies his biography at his organisation: United States Martial Arts Association.

http://www.mararts.org/biography/porter.shtml

And some discussion of the matter of the father of american judo at JudoInfo.com.

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=9195

I have heard of him before in judo circles. My understanding is that he was a rather accomplished judo player and coach, who did a lot for american judo. On top of that he seems to have liked formal status seeing all of the associations he started and joined and all the different dan-grades he amassed.

/M

[Howard Quick]

"I know nothing.....nothing!!!"

Thanks for the replies.
Mark, I'd heard of Phil Porter in passing but had never taken any notice.
The guy in the article turned up in my area about 12-24 months ago and there was a newspaper article about him being inducted into 'one of many' (in)famous martial arts 'hall's of fame'.
In the Australian Jujitsu Association rules and reg's it states that it is forbidden for a member to approach another person for the purpose of gaining higher grades outside of their own teachers wishes/recommendations. In other words, if your teacher says no to a higher grade (you shouldn't be asking anyway ) you can't then approach someone else in order to gain the higher rank. The other two people in the article were once members of our club and were once respected as people and for their own talents. Two of the 3 people in the article were expelled from the Australian Jujitsu Association for breaking the rule above. One for giving a rank and one for receiving a rank. The third was refused membership renewal some years ago.

Thank's again for the info.

P.S. If anyone is interested in reading the article, as I couldn't upload a clear enough copy (too big) I can email it to you.

[Howard Quick]

Well I decided to go straight to the source and get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak.
I emailed Mr. Porter and asked the pertinent questions, and as hard as it was, I was polite.
I received a number of very prompt and polite replies to my questions, which actually surprised me.
Apparently the following is OK!
1. It's O.K to grade a person to a high Dan rank by backdating their Shodan grade a few years and then 're-grading' (no actual testing) them to add the next grades. ?????
2. It's fine to make up your own system and then ask to be graded in it by someone who knows nothing of your system but, due to their vast knowledge is able to judge whether it is effective/good/legit....I don't know.
3. In conjunction with 2. It's OK to grade a person in their system, even though you know nothing of their system but, due to your vast knowledge you are able to judge whether it is effective/good/legit....I don't know.
I always thought if you were the inventor of a system, you were above rank! Apparently this is true but it looks better to the public if you have a certificate from an organization saying you are such 'n' such Dan. Makes it more believable, legit looking I guess!?
Also, it doesn't matter squat if you are not recognized by your peers, as long as you have heaps of students and a huge organization.
Reputation is NOTHING!!!

[MarkF]

Well, Howard, being as he is O-sensei Porter, I douby he himself answered the email, just as mass email comes from the same adress.

Someone on E-budo actually did apply to have his 'new' method recognized, the man was 26 yr. old and said so and invited him to use a high rank "but not too huih. in the invitation, even recommending a high grade, "but not too high."

Actually, the fact he has been in the paper lately seems to come from a world tour Porter is making, one particle appearing in a Malasian Newspaper, if I recall correctly, and my bet is that the article is similar.

Porter is indeed well known, and earlier, he was a friend to many of the US top judoka. But if that is true today, then why is no one but the USMAA (and those schools linked to them) recognizing his 10-dan? Even at 9-dan, the judo organizations of this country did not recognize it at all, particularly after his expulsion from an organization he helped get started.


I figured you would take the hint and listen to the horse, Howard.


Mark

[Donn Schucker]

Mark,

Sorry that this response is very late, but until now it would not have been appropriate for me to respond. My affiliation with Phil Porter as USMA Director of Operations has come to an end after many years of working closely with him and seeing everything form the inside. I would be more than happy to speak to you (or anyone else for that matter) about any and all questions or concerns that pertain to him or the USMA.

I learned a lot during my time with him and have seen the best and the worst of what the martial arts can be. In response to this I have (along with several other top USMA leaders) incorporated as a non profit entity to serve the martial arts in the most legitimate way possible.

Not to sound like a commercial, it is obvious from our website:

www.iama-martial-arts.com

what I have learned in my 40+ years of training and administration, including more than a decade with Phil Porter and the USMA. While I won't go on the record making negative comments about the USMA or O-Sensei, again I would be happy to speak frankly with any interested party.

All the best,

Donn Schucker
(314) 838-0869

[cxt]

Donn

Yeah, I have a coupl eof questions.

You ask on your "rank" section that:

"Are you teaching yoru own unique art and need to have it formally recognized"

If its really "unique" how can you be sure that your group has the experience to "formally recognize" it?

You ask:

"Have you been held back or passed over for rank evaluation?"

People being people---they often choose to blame others for their problems and "I was robbed" tends to be a common excuse...granted somtimes its true--but how do you know?

You ask:

"Are you under ranked?"

Seriously, how many MA students ever feel that they are NOT "under ranked?"

Granted ranks are pretty meaningless outside of the school that actual issues them......I might be ranked much higher OR much lower depending on my skills at other schools...but I'm still at a loss to understand how someone......based on the above questions...can offer legitamte rank to people they really don't know.

[Donn Schucker]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Our site states:

"If you answered “yes” to any of the above, perhaps the IAMA can help you. Please contact us to explore the opportunities that may be available to you. The IAMA was founded to unite the martial arts – not technically, but in spirit – by providing the fair and timely services that martial artists from all styles require without politics, discrimination, or bias."

which we hoped would express our desire to try to help people if such action is warranted...which in many cases is NOT. We have already not accepted many ranks for certification because the individual did not have sufficient time in grade, technical ability, etc. The use of the words "perhaps" and "may" above stress that there is simply the possibility that we can help people, but we make no promises, and every single person we certify must be evaluated before certification is finalized.

Please look on our website at:

http://www.iama-martial-arts.com/iama_leaders.htm

for a listing of our top leaders. These individuals hail from a number of diverse martial arts and are more than qualified to function in the capacity of rank examiners, and are certified as such. Additionally we have a number of members who hold no official position in the IAMA but have expressed their willingness to do whatever they can to help, including rank evaluation and possible certification for toher potential members.

What we meant by the use of the word unique was the unique blend of technical material that defines the style. To be honest, all martial artists regardless of style teach their own art which is the result of years of their own unique (there's that word again!) experiences and thoughts on how to best present the arts to the world.

There is nothing new under the sun, but the way things are offered to students is what makes it unique. You may ask, "well then there's no need to certify it as a new style then, is there?"

The answer, strictly speaking is no, there is no need to do this...other than the fact that some people have a great technical and philosophical syllibus that doesn't fall into the strict confines of a mainstream art but can nontheless benefit many people.

I hope this sufficiently addresses your concerns. Please call me at (314) 838-0869 if you would like to discuss things further - I would be more than happy to speak to you.

Again, thank you for your response.

All the best,

Donn Schucker
IAMA Executive Director

[cxt]

Donn

Ah, so its a sort of "define the word "the" and "is" kind of thing.

You want people to know that on the off chance that if they are one of the very few exceptions you might/may/maybe/possibly/there is a small chance/ you "might" be able to help them.

Then the question becomes---on the off chance that someone "might" be able to use your, no doubt highly descriminating, services...then how much "might" it cost?

Interesting to note that you don't happen to list any of the people that actually taught you your art...its one thing not to recognize a name...quite something else not to even have one...esp for one as highly ranked as yourself.
Somebody gave me a 7th or 9th degree rank, I'm sure that I'd want to list them.

Also interesting terms--such as Yudansha Taigu----kinda of a non-standard useage as near as I can tell....sounds impressive, but practically speaking........

Also interesting that I can't seem to find information on exactly whom taught some of your other "Yudansha Taigu" their arts....or how long they studied them....oh LISTS of Black Belt ranks can be found...but little actual information.

There is no information on the background and training of the Director of your "Promotion Board"...kinda of important guy to have no checkable background on.

Look, I don't know you.......but the web is full of scam-a-rai offering all sorts of certifications along with plenty of smooth talk

[Duanew]

In my experience the term O'Sensei was reserved for the revered departed. Perhaps he is and just doesn't know it.

[George Kohler]

In my experience the term O'Sensei was reserved for the revered departed. Perhaps he is and just doesn't know it.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthre...hlight=osensei

[Donn Schucker]

Thanks for your respones. As you stated, you don't know me...call me if you wish to speak to me about my background and credentials, instructors, etc. I would be more than happy to speak openly and frankly with any and all interested parties.

Donn Schucker
(314) 838-0869

[cxt]

Donn

That is very kind of you to offer to speak to me by phone....however, you posted what is essentially marketing material or links to same on a PUBLIC website.

I asked public questions that I think deserve public answers......not phone calls for which there will be no records of what is said......and certainly a conversation to which others won't be able to listen too.

(legally anyway )

I can certainly understand that you might not want to air what might be seen as "dirty laundry" in public, but again, if one is going to publically market ones goods, services, organizations etc ....then one should expect questions from the public.

And I can't imagine why simple questions like "whom issued you your 7th and 9th degree ranks" should require private phone conversations?

If you either can't or won't answer direct questions and observations about things very much in the public sphere....put there by YOU BTW, for the express purpose of marketing your services and organization I might add.....then there is very little else that needs to be said.

Silence can, on occasion, speak volumes.

[Donn Schucker]

Chris,

I certainly do understand your sarcasm and reluctance to accept anything I say - it's only natural after all the nonsense and corruption in the arts. We've all seen far too much of this, and this is why I am at this point in my martial arts career today.

As far as marketing goes, I merely want to clarify what has been said on the various forums. There is a lot of misinformation out there, and as I have been on the inside of the USMA for many years, I have a unique (that word again! LOL!) vantage point, and am privy to info that others have no means of obtaining. I feel the public should have access to this info, and as previously stated will be happy to speak to anyone who is interested. I prefer to do this by phone because some topics of controversy (there are many - more than you would ever think!) will be very lengthy to discuss, and some would be very, very offensive my former affiliation. They are, nontheless facts and while I wish to avoid a public mudslinging contest I feel people have a right to know - call for more on this if you are interested.

I have relinquished all ranks as a symbolic gesture and as an open protest to the selling of rank, etc. that is so common these days. Eventually my seniors may see fit to evaluate me (they have mentioned it, although I personally don't care one way or the other) for rank, but that's up to them not me.

Regarding the ranks I have turned my back on - the most recent were awarded by the USMA, including 7th dan in judo and 9th dan in jujitsu. As most are aware, many USMA ranks have been awarded under questionable circumstances, and I do not wish to be associated with this sort of thing in any way.

I hope this sufficiently addresses your concerns. I feel no need to further explain myself or defend my actions so this will be my final post in this thread. Please call if you require more info - and then make the post yourself if you wish.

Thank you for providing this venue for me to speak on this subject.

All the best,

Donn Schucker
(314) 838-0869