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Thread: Asashoryu - the last straw?

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    Thumbs down Asashoryu - the last straw?

    In the final bout of the Natsu Basho, Yokozuna Asashoryu defeated rival Yokozuna Hakuho.

    Asashoryu gave Hakuho a late shove while he was on the ground (the bout was already over). Hakuho shoved Asashoryu back, stood up and gave him a fiery glare. For a second it looked like a fight was going to break out (another one!).

    I'll try and post video of the incident once it become available.

    After all the recent hullabaloo with Asashoryu you'd think he'd at least try to avoid being suspended or sacked outright. I believe he's still on probation after his 2007 suspension.

    As far as I'm concerned this is the last straw. Talented as he is, he clearly does not have the deportment to be a Yokozuna and the Nihon Sumo Kyokai should strip him of his rank.

    John McCulloch

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    Quote Originally Posted by John McCulloch View Post
    d the Nihon Sumo Kyokai should strip him of his rank.

    John McCulloch
    Just out of curiosity, given that the title (it's not a rank) of Yokozuna is permanent and cannot be revoked, just how would they go about 'stripping him of his rank' as you suggest.
    Jim Cotter

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfkcotter View Post
    Just out of curiosity, given that the title (it's not a rank) of Yokozuna is permanent and cannot be revoked, just how would they go about 'stripping him of his rank' as you suggest.
    They can't. In the case of grieviously bad behavior, they could force him into retirement, but that's it. That's what happened with Yokozuna Futahaguro. He had a rocky relationship with his oyakata, struck the oyakata's wife (and broke some property, IIRC). The oyakata submitted retirement papers and the Sumo Kyokai accepted them. And Futahaguro was gone.

    Nothing Asashoryu has done would justify such an action, though. The closest he's come was the soccer incident, for which he was pretty heavily punished.
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, žonne he ęt guše gengan ženceš longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearaš. - The Beowulf Poet

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    Default Hari-te on the wrist

    Thanks Josh for the correction. Although there is no precedent for an expulsion, there was no precedent for a two basho suspension either.

    By the way, here is the video. Action begins around the 5:45 mark.

    My beef is not just with this incident, but with the way he has acted since returning from his suspension. This incident took place on the last match of the basho - a bout that would have more viewer eyes than any other bout.

    What's wrong with him?

    John McCulloch

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    Talking Now, now, John... Let's not get carried away.

    Hey John,
    While I agree with you about unsportsmanlike behavior, I don't think Asa should be stripped of his rank. He should be given a stern warning from the Nihon Sumo Kyokai officials, yet again. I find it irritating that he would lose so much self-composure, given the fact that he is still under some level of probation from his former antics. This is not acceptable, especially against a fellow Yokozuna! He needs a good bitch-slappin' from his Oyakata. Frankly, he needs to grow up. If he can't behave with the dignity of a Yokozuna, maybe he should consider MMA or boxing? After all, he is behaving like Mike Tyson, for crying out loud!

    Also, I want to point out that Yokozuna Akibono behaved badly during his reign as Grand Champion. He often viciously shoved opponents way, way, way into the "cheap seats", unconcerned with injuring the rikishi or the spectators below, when he could have eased-them over the edge. I'm talking about the extra shove in the end, after he had already won the match. Even little guys like Mainoumi were flung out like rag dolls. I'm not trying to slam him, in particular, it's just that sumo is a really rough martial-sport. Don't get me started about his ridiculous career in MMA matches. His pathetic showing brought disgrace and disrespect to Sumo.

    Be well and practice often, Jon Palombi
    Last edited by jonpalombi; 28th May 2008 at 15:27.

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    Thanks Josh for the correction. Although there is no precedent for an expulsion, there was no precedent for a two basho suspension either.
    Actually, there was. Yokozuna Maedayama pulled out of the 1949 October basho due to colitis, but was then seen watching a baseball exhibition at Korakuen Stadium, and having his picture taken with Lefty O'Doul. He was made to retire. Yokozuna Kitanofuji, OTOH, went kyujo from the 1972 Natsu basho, and received permission to go to Hawaii for recuperation. While there, however, he was photographed surfing. He was quickly summoned back to Japan (where he copiously apologized), and was censured.

    Between those extremes lies Asashoryu, who in addition to falsifying a medical report, left the country without permission or even notice to his oyakata. The Kyokai wanted a heavy penalty, but not retirement, and the two-months suspension came about.

    I'm far from an Asashoryu fan, but really just being a bit obnoxious is not grounds enough to force him into retirement. Not all of the past Yokozuna have been nice guys full of hinkaku.

    Also, I want to point out that Yokozuna Akibono behaved badly during his reign as Grand Champion. He often viciously shoved opponents way, way, way into the "cheap seats", unconcerned with injuring the rikishi or the spectators below, when he could have eased-them over the edge.
    Say, you wouldn't happen to be the same fellow raising this point on Sumo Forum, would you?

    Akebono's shoves are common among all oshi-zumo specialists. Oshi-zumo guys don't ease their opponents over the edge -- that's yotsu-zumo. Oshi-zumo guys have to push, thrust, and shove, and they don't exactly have the wherewithal to keep careful track of where their opponents feet are. Not infrequently, the cause of the shove is that the loser realizes he's lost before the winner does, relaxes, and ends up taking a hard shove.

    Akebono's was a model of Yokozuna hinkaku, particularly compared to Asashoryu. While to the casual fan he was the "bad guy" against the "heroes" Taka and Waka, among Japanese sumo fans and insiders, he was considered polite, courteous, and dignified. He, at least, properly bowed to his opponent when he lost.
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, žonne he ęt guše gengan ženceš longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearaš. - The Beowulf Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Reyer View Post
    Oshi-zumo guys have to push, thrust, and shove, and they don't exactly have the wherewithal to keep careful track of where their opponents feet are. Not infrequently, the cause of the shove is that the loser realizes he's lost before the winner does, relaxes, and ends up taking a hard shove.
    Gotta agree with that. Having looked at that clip a few times, the final shove in this incident seems more about bad timing/overcommitment rather than poor sportsmanship.

    Should Hakuho have been censured for (over)reacting to it?
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    Lightbulb More on the Natsu Basho "Shove-gate"

    Thank you all for your very illuminating comments.

    I heard today that the Chairman of the Kyokai blamed Hakuho for over-reacting to what he believed was Asashoryu's natural follow on from his attacking technique.

    The Yokozuna Deliberation Council (YDC), however, was evenly split in their reactions to the incident (Asashoryu's fault vs Hakuho's over-reaction). The outcome was that the YDC recommended that the Kyokai Chairman strongly caution both Yokozuna about their behavior.

    Hmm.... it's a shame that this is taking attention away from Kotooshu's great accomplishment.

    Best wishes,

    John McCulloch

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    Thumbs up How about a little applause for the Ozeki?

    Quote Originally Posted by John McCulloch View Post
    Hmm.... it's a shame that this is taking attention away from Kotooshu's great accomplishment.

    Best wishes,

    John McCulloch
    Well John,
    Certainly, the single most important story-line of this Basho was Kotooshu's determination to hold on to his Ozeki rank. Like Kaio and Chiyotaikai, he has been struggling with injuries and fighting against the down-ward spiral of . Let's face it, the price of Champion status is victory and injury is a formidable barrier to this goal. Retirement is the inevitable ghoul that dogs every great athlete, throughout his/her career. Kotooshu was definitely feeling the icy-cold breath of this finality, and he rose to triumph against the forces of his own destruction.

    In this near mythic quest, he seized the day and ascended to challenge the odds, to the point of claiming the Emperor's Cup! Funny that all we hear about is the juvenile behavior of the two Yokozunas, eh? It would serve them both right if Kotooshu became the 70th Yokozuna. Probable? No. Fun to think about? Absolutely!

    Later, Jon Palombi

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    Thumbs up How about a little applause for the Bulgarian Ozeki?

    Quote Originally Posted by John McCulloch View Post
    Hmm.... it's a shame that this is taking attention away from Kotooshu's great accomplishment.

    Best wishes,

    John McCulloch
    Well John,
    Certainly, the single most important story-line of this Basho was Kotooshu's determination to hold on to his Ozeki rank. Like Kaio and Chiyotaikai, he has been struggling with injuries and fighting against this down-ward spiral, of merely struggling to achieve 8 wins. Let's face it, the price of Champion status is victory and injury is a formidable barrier to this goal. Retirement is the inevitable ghoul that dogs every great athlete throughout his/her career. Kotooshu was definitely feeling the icy-cold breath of this threatening finality, and so, he rose to triumph against the forces of his own destruction!!!

    In this near mythic quest, he seized the day and ascended to challenge the odds, to the point of claiming the Emperor's Cup! Funny that all we hear about is the juvenile behavior of the two Yokozunas, eh? It would serve them both right if Kotooshu became the 70th Yokozuna. Probable? No. Fun to think about? Absolutely!

    Later, Jon Palombi
    Last edited by jonpalombi; 29th May 2008 at 04:21.

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    Talking Sorry about the double post.

    What can I say? That's the last time I try and post a reply while doing a full system virus scan. Somehow it ended up splitting this reply into two replies. Curious, yet odd...

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