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Thread: The secret of ki, life, and asian martial arts.

  1. #31
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    Default Wait a minute...

    first off, I agreed with you, Mr. Owens, I was merely explaining how one could have argued from a quantum science point of view, which i was questioned about before. I said that my religious belief had to do with science, not that it had to do with throwing people around without touching them. I was explaining that there was a way of arguing the point that I originally asked about from a scientific point of view, I didn't intend to discuss science on a MA forum, but I felt that I had to so that I can add credibility to the reason for bringing it up in the first place. Basically from what I see is that I brought up a subject that everybody here disagrees with, so after a time I disagreed along with them, but everyone still is trying to put words into my mouth saying that it is my belief, it is not. Stop saying that it is. I believe in science and chi and acupuncture. Period. I don't believe you can throw people without touching them.
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  2. #32
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    Default To Mike

    "It is not "quantum energy" that causes amputees to feel phantom limbs, but rather entirely explicable reactions in the nervous system. And what's this "chakra measurement machine"? Do you have sources? If chakras can be observed and measured they can be related back to human physiology and therefore explained. That would be cool."

    First, Mike, I want to say that just because the phantoim toe can be explained by your nervous system in biology doesn't mean that it can't be explained in quantum physics as well. Your nervous system, organs, everything is energy, and there are parts of you that you can't see as well. Second, I do believe that those people are fakes, but I also believe in chi and that there are larger possibilities with chi than we know of, although throwing people is too much. However, as I explained earlier, it was a plausible argument in terms of science, which everything i said is quantifiable by quantum law and in no way flawed (if you believe that the phatom toe is a deep flaw, which I just againb explained). As to the chakras machine, I will get an article and post it here for you to view and form your own opinion on.
    However I lready used occam's razor, and I can separate my beliefs and look open mindedly at a subject with ease. I don't believe that you can throw people, but I wasn't sure if the original videos were legitimate considering there were done by a religious institute for buddhistic studies and the explanation he gave in the video seemed to coincide with a possibility in quantum mechanics. I do also agree with Mr. Owens that pyschology could be playing a big factor here, unless dondrop dorje himself wishes to be studied in a case study by scientists to prove us wrong. However, my second part of the argument, the devil's advocate part, had to do with chi itself, with the fellow breaking bricks while tapping on them. I do believe in chi, and so do many other martial artists, and quantum physics is also a good part of my belief, but that is not a part of this discussion (my belief). The discussion was whether or not it was possible to move people with your energy, which most people seem to agree here is not possible. However, there wasn't, from what a I see, an argument against chi itself.
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  3. #33
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    Default To Mr. Owens

    Here is the kung fu book,
    http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Gung-Fu-Ch...5139467&sr=8-2

    cheers,
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    Brendan Lanza

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendan V Lanza View Post
    Here is the kung fu book...
    Hmmm. That's a new one to me.

    Published after his death, it appears to be a collection of Bruce's writings from different times and places.

    I'll have to add that one to my library.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  5. #35
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    Default Yes, it seems to be a good book.

    I haven't read all of it, but parts and I like what I read. Bruce also believed in chi, and also denounces charlatans who lie in order to fill their pockets in this book.
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  6. #36
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    Default sorry, I forgot,

    Please Enjoy!
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    Brendan Lanza

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendan V Lanza View Post
    ...Bruce also believed in chi...
    Oh, Puh-leeeze! A spurious appeal to authority?!? This crowd is a little bit too sophisticated for that.

    I could say, "Superstrings are giant strands of yarn that hold the planets together," and then say "Professor Brian Greene of Columbia University has written a book about superstrings."

    Does that mean that Prof. Greene believes that superstrings are giant strands of yarn that hold the planets together? Of course not. Only someone incapable of critical analysis would think so.

    Redefining words to fit ones own beliefs, and than trying to say that someone else who doesn't use the same word in the same way supports the belief is a common ploy used by charlatans and cultists.

  8. #38
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    Default uh, dude...

    He mentions the dan tien in his book, you know... the sources of chi in your body. What do you think that he believes? I have a suspiscion that you don't believe in chi, enjoy the book in any way you want to, believe in what you want, under whoever's authority you want, and be at peace my brother.
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  9. #39
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    Default Wait a minute...

    Did you just call me a charlatan and cultist because I believe in chi? You do realize that most of the ancient budo and marital arts masters of the east mention chi in their writings, right? I don't think im qualified for a cultist
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendan V Lanza View Post
    ... I have a suspiscion that you don't believe in chi...
    Your suspicion would be wrong.

    That doesn't mean that I believe what you believe, however.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendan V Lanza View Post
    Did you just call me a charlatan and cultist because I believe in chi?
    No, I didn't. I merely pointed out that charlatans and cultists often do something similar to what you did: state a position, and then say that someone else (usually, as in your case, long dead and unable to clarify his or her position) agrees with that position even when there is no evidence that such agreement exists.

    The fact that 35 or more years ago Bruce wrote about chi doesn't mean that he thought chi is what you think chi is.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  12. #42
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    I believe that we have the quandry of "quantification" present, which is what may be fueling the differences of opinion. If you question the oriental culture regarding the exsistance of chi I am reasonably sure that a large amount of the population would express some belief in chi on a continuum of " believe a little" to "firmly believe it". Some may even affirm and attest to certain supernatural qualities manifested (unlike common westerner belief). This concept has been a conerstone of TCM, accupuncture, accupressure,etc in the orriental culture, not the western culture. The oriental culture has manifested (for centuries) a belief in holistic approach (chi, ki driven) versus treatment of symptom which is the approach widly used by western medicine. Westerners (and most others) believe in electricity, even though we cannot engage in visual quantification of its power unless we have the proper tools to do so (voltmeter). We trust that when the switch is flipped the object (bulb, tv,etc) will come to life due to electricity. Unfortunately the abundance of tools to quantify chi in a uniform scientific manner acceptable to the scientific community is still deficient.
    My belief in something is fueled and energized by continued reinforcement in that theory, concept, etc working by watching the manifestation of those theories, concepts, etc manifesting themselves in or around my presence. The other way is to just have blind faith.
    I may be a bit presumtuous in assuming that it may work like this for many others, but so be it. Believe what you want to believe, believe what you need to believe, but believe for the right reasons and not out of deception. There is a concept that may keep a martial artist in darkness or ignorance during their growth and that is "contempt prior to investigation."
    Last edited by Jitsumania; 5th July 2008 at 02:29.
    Rick Torres, Dojo Cho
    Integrity Defensive Arts
    Victoria, Texas
    www.ksrjujitsu.com
    [/B]

  13. #43
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    Default A beautiful thing...

    I would like to announce that my beautiful baby girl, Erica, was born last night on July 4th, 2008, at 11:19 PM!!!
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    Brendan Lanza

  14. #44
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    Default This is what i believe...

    I believ in what the martial artists of old believe in, that there is an energy force that goes through everything, not just us (it was believed that the mountains contained great sources of chi for instance) that brings life (asians believed very firmly, and many still do that a life is made once a large amount of chi is accumulated in one place which is what supposedly starts to happen once the sperm enters the egg, according to ancient asian belief). I believe, as many other modern asians do, as well as scientists and doctors, like the semi-famous Bruce Lipton PHD, that this is related to Quantum Physics as an explanation. That's what I believe, I also know that many traditional asian people (especially people involved with the chinese martial arts) believe that chi can be projected without touch, I also believe this but believe that it has a limit. I don't think, as I have already stated, that you can throw people without touching them, that's too much. I live in Asia, I live like an Asian, I married onee, I hear first hand what they believe, I speak an Asian language and am immersed in their culture, and now my daughter is Asian. I basically believe what so many modern asians believe and ancient as well. It is my opinion that Bruce Leee also believed in what the ancients also believed in, and that is chi. I said he believed in chi, I don't think that makes me a cultist and I don't know why you seem to think that I believe in something very unorthodox as it is that so many people the part of the world that I live in, the same part of the world that Bruce Lee came from (Asia) believe the same way as I do. I honestly don't feel it correct to say that I am doing the same thing as any cultist, and I say this as humbly and politely as possible. I teach for a living, and have been teaching many asians in the medical profession who believe in the quantum mechanics that I explained. Does that mean that Bruce Lee did? No, maybe he had a different view because so many people today and in his time weren't so interested in the science to investigate it further. But I said that he believed in chi, that's all that I said, now I don't think that I was going too far in saying that, do you?
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  15. #45
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    Default

    The first vid clip is a cult in my opinion.
    Chris McLean
    Martial Arts student

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