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Thread: Soto Uke Dan Zuki

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    Default Soto Uke Dan Zuki

    Just wondering how the rest of the world performs this hokei.

    In Melbourne, until recently, we have performed it as follows:

    From migi ichiji gamae - hidari soto uke followed by migi chudan jun zuki and hidari chudan gyaku zuki.

    However, in the instructional DVD, I note that the jun zuki is not performed. The technique is:

    From migi ichiji gamae - hidari soto uke followed by hidari chudan gyaku zuki.

    Which version is correct?
    Robert Gassin
    Melbourne ShorinjiKempo Branch
    Australia

    "Never fight an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Gassin View Post
    Just wondering how the rest of the world performs this hokei.

    In Melbourne, until recently, we have performed it as follows:

    From migi ichiji gamae - hidari soto uke followed by migi chudan jun zuki and hidari chudan gyaku zuki.

    However, in the instructional DVD, I note that the jun zuki is not performed. The technique is:

    From migi ichiji gamae - hidari soto uke followed by hidari chudan gyaku zuki.

    Which version is correct?
    Hi Rob,
    definitely the latter. The first way is soto uke zuki renhanko. It should be hidari soto uke, hidari chudan uchi zuki. The 'dan' refers to using the same hand twice in a row, like the dan ko-bo of byakuren ken embu (i.e. defend and counter with the same limb).
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

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    Thanks David.
    Robert Gassin
    Melbourne ShorinjiKempo Branch
    Australia

    "Never fight an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience"

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    Hi Rob,

    We have always done it the second way (Newcastle and Sydney, I'm not sure about Brisbane)
    Cheers
    Colin Linz

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    Lightbulb Block and punch with same hand

    Dear All

    Gassho

    Dave is entirely correct, dan-zuki means block and counter with same hand.

    I asked one of the 8th dan instructors about this technique in Paris at the 2001 Taikai, as I really struggled to see the point of it and uchi-age dan zuki which is so similar as to make you wonder about the duality.

    He explained that it was a technique where the other hand was engaged ie holding your wife's hand, holding a fu'kll pint of beer or being held and restrained by a 2nd attacker.

    He also explained that soto uke or uchi age was dependant upon distance and space in which you, the defender, have to manouvre, he stated that uchi age is far more close proximity but that both techniques have to be done with little or no footwork just tai sabaki.

    He made us practice from hiraki with front hand striking and taigamae with back hand doing all the work, he also made someone hang onto our other arm so we couldn't use it or move.

    Interestingly he also said that ren han ko should not be with the "other" arm but with a foot or knee strike as you have to assume that you still have only one arm to deal with the attacker and finish them off.

    Try it, you might like it, I did and I now understand and value this hokei dearly.

    Kesshu
    A man with small testes should never get involved in a fight requiring cojones

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    Gassho!

    Great explanation!

    In western boxing you can sometimes see soto uke dan zuki but applied with age kagi zuki (uppercut). Often this happens in close range.

    Johan Frendin

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    Thanks Colin, Johan and especially Ade.

    The info regarding application is invaluable.

    Cheers,
    Robert Gassin
    Melbourne ShorinjiKempo Branch
    Australia

    "Never fight an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience"

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan_frendin View Post
    Gassho!

    Great explanation!

    In western boxing you can sometimes see soto uke dan zuki but applied with age kagi zuki (uppercut). Often this happens in close range.

    Johan Frendin
    Which reminds me - why no uppercut in SK?
    We practice a number of other precision strikes, but not this one.

    Dirk

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk.bruere View Post
    Which reminds me - why no uppercut in SK?
    We practice a number of other precision strikes, but not this one.

    Dirk
    Dirk, actually we do have a version of the boxing uppercut: uwakagizuki. It differs only in that toward the endpoint of the strike the back of the fist is rotated outward and upward (similar to as in the standard karate punch) so as to facilitate reaching the target more easily if the owner of said target tries to lean away.

    HTH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Williams View Post
    Dirk, actually we do have a version of the boxing uppercut: uwakagizuki. It differs only in that toward the endpoint of the strike the back of the fist is rotated outward and upward (similar to as in the standard karate punch) so as to facilitate reaching the target more easily if the owner of said target tries to lean away.

    HTH
    Hi Jeremy,

    Could you please explain what you mean by 'It differs only in that toward the endpoint of the strike the back of the fist is rotated outward and upward (similar to as in the standard karate punch) so as to facilitate reaching the target more easily if the owner of said target tries to lean away'.

    Thanks,
    Robert Gassin
    Melbourne ShorinjiKempo Branch
    Australia

    "Never fight an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Gassin View Post
    Hi Jeremy,

    Could you please explain what you mean by 'It differs only in that toward the endpoint of the strike the back of the fist is rotated outward and upward (similar to as in the standard karate punch) so as to facilitate reaching the target more easily if the owner of said target tries to lean away'.

    Thanks,
    With the classic boxing uppercut (as I understand i), the back of your fist is toward your opponent and your arm is bent throughout. This means that if you continue the movement, your arm will roughly follow an arc back towards yourself. If your partner leans back to avoid the strike, however, you will need to straighten out the arm slightly and keep it going forward. This, apparently, is made easier by the fist rotation in uwakagizuki.

    HTH

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    Default Uppercut usage

    ...actually we do have a version of the boxing uppercut: uwakagizuki.
    And a (or the) hokei usage thereof can be found in haraiuke danzuki.

    One more thanks to Ade from over here, for that danzuki explanation.
    Colin May
    Bellevue (next to Seattle), U.S.A.
    Shorinji Kempo Seattle Branch

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    Quote Originally Posted by satsukikorin View Post
    And a (or the) hokei usage thereof can be found in haraiuke danzuki.
    Interesting you should mention this. This is also how I was taught haraiuke danzuki (uwa kagi zuki + chudan gyaku zuki). However, on the DVD, Kawashima sensei appears to strike with uraken uchi.
    Robert Gassin
    Melbourne ShorinjiKempo Branch
    Australia

    "Never fight an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience"

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    Talking Harai uke dan zuki

    Dear All

    Gassho

    I've been taught harai uke dan zuki by Kawachima Sensei and Arai Sensei and can state that they both make the second punch ura ken tzuki.

    They both do a hip shimmy into a yoko tenshin step slightly forward, inside the arc of the attacking leg, which effectively destroys the attack by moving the target.
    The uchi harai uke is (usually) quite light contact block onto the attacking leg but they both use the momentum of the bounce of the arm off the leg to whip the blocking arm back up towards the attacker's face for ura ken tzuki.
    The ura ken tzuki is not ; however; the main emphasis of the riposte, it's almost like a light stinging blow to anywhere available on the face designed to confuse and drive the attacker's head back, and forcing them to arch their back trying to get away from that strike.
    Whilst the stomach is then stretched backwards (negating any useful hardening of the area throgh muscular tension) there is a slight sashi komi ashi into gyaku zuki chudan striking deeply in to seigetsu.
    The ren han ko is then sashi kai ashi into chi kama mai for the death in a telephone box ending.

    Enjoy.

    Kesshu
    A man with small testes should never get involved in a fight requiring cojones

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Williams View Post
    Dirk, actually we do have a version of the boxing uppercut: uwakagizuki. It differs only in that toward the endpoint of the strike the back of the fist is rotated outward and upward (similar to as in the standard karate punch) so as to facilitate reaching the target more easily if the owner of said target tries to lean away.

    HTH
    Well, in which case I have to admit that in nearly 30 years of practice I have never done it, or been taught it. At least, if you mean that the underside of the chin is the target.

    Dirk

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