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Thread: Kyudo/Kyujutsu Koryu

  1. #1
    Mike Praskey Guest

    Default Kyudo/Kyujutsu Koryu

    Is anyone here familar with or just Knowledgable about any
    kinds of Koryu Kyu-jutsu styles ? I've heard a little bit
    about the Heki-ryu but I was never sure if it was Koryu or
    a transitional style.

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    The Heki Ryu is said to have been founded by a man named Heki Danjo Masatsugu, who lived around the time of the Onin War (ca. 1477). Some scholars believe that he was a fictional character, but the late Ishioka Hisao, a respected kyudo historian, and other scholars make a convincing case that he actually existed. In any case, it is a historically verifiable fact that his teachings were carried on by the Yoshida family, members of which were responsible for establishing many different branches of the school, such as the Sekka-ha, the Dosetsu-ha, the Insai-ha, and others. Many of these schools still exist in some form or other. The Heki Ryu Chikurin-ha, another Heki school, was supposedly founded by Chikurinbo Josei, a priest of the Shingon sect . The Chikurin-ha is still active in the Nagoya area and other places.

    Modern kyudo was synthesized after WWII from the elements common to all of the traditional schools. The Chikurin influence, at least from a philosophical point of view, is strong. Most of the traditional schools share many common elements since they originally sprang from the same source. Elements of the Ogasawara Ryu, which predates the Heki Ryu by several hundred years, were also included in this synthesization. Most archers in Japan today practice the synthesized form, but many also practice the traditional forms, and there are various preservation societies that manitain the study iof the traditional methods. My teacher, for instance, holds a very high position in the All Nippon Kyudo Federation, the national federation that oversees kyudo activity in Japan; but in her private dojo she primarily teaches the traditional Insai-ha method. There is a good deal less incompatibility than one might think; modern kyudo was not made up out of whole cloth, but simply amalgamated existing elements and emphasized certain ceremonial and spiritual aspects of archery that had always been present in the practice. Japanese archery has always been a synthesis of the military and the ceremonial; even the most martial schools had ceremonial forms which, while not suited for the battlefield, were used for formal ceremonial occasions. It is this aspect that is more emphasized today.

    Traditional martial applications of kyudo are still taught today. Equestrian archery (yabusame) is still actively practiced by the Ogasawara Ryu and the Takeda Ryu, and the Satsuma Heki Ryu still actively practices what is called koshiya kumi-yumi, battlefield archery where the archers shoot in tight formations while dressed in full armor. However, one cannot practice the Satsuma Heki Ryu if one is not at least a 5th degree black belt in modern kyudo.

    Earl
    Earl Hartman

  3. #3
    Mike Praskey Guest

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    Much appreicated. I've studied other martial arts before but
    as far as Kyudo is concerned I'm almost completely ignorant.
    I'm about to leave for Japan in roughly two weeks and I'll
    be in Kyoto for at least a year. (longer if I can manage it.) I'm intrested in getting involved in Kyudo, preferably a style that emphsizes military technique if at all possible. What would your advice be to a novice like
    myself ?

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    Mike:

    Finding a traditional school that emphasises military technique will be quite problematic, I think. As I said, even those people who practice traditional scools have a solid grounding in modern kyudo. As far as I know, the only school which emphasizes battlefield archery as practiced by foot soldiers is the Satsuma Heki Ryu, and they are in Kyushu. Also, you cannot learn that method without solid grounding in how to shoot a bow first. This is why a person must be at least a 5th dan in regular kyudo before being accepted as a member of that school. A year is not enough time for that; even in a best case scenario, achieving a 5th dan in kyudo will take at least 5-7 years if not longer. If you were to begin kyudo in Kyoto the minute you stepped off the plane you might be able to get a 2nd dan in conventional kyudo in a year's time if you practiced very hard (as in every day). While the Ogasawara Ryu specializes in equestrian archery, they also teach foot archery, but they appear to emphasize formal archery as practiced at court. I do not know if they teach battlefield archery. From what little I know of them I doubt it.

    There may be some teachers of traditional schools which are not associated with the All Nippon Kyudo Federation. I have no idea how one would go about finding such teachers, however. There is a group in Tsukuba University, in Chiba, I think (near Tokyo) which prctices Heki To Ryu kyudo as taught by the late Inagaki Genshiro Sensei, but I do not know much about them.

    I suggest that you contact the All Nippon Kyudo Federation in Tokyo. They should be able to direct you. The address is:

    All Nippon Kyudo Federation
    Jinnan 1-1-1, Shibuya-ku
    Tokyo, Japan

    Telephone:
    In Japan: (03)3481-2387
    From the US: 011-81-3-3481-2387

    Good luck.

    Earl
    Earl Hartman

  5. #5
    Mike Praskey Guest

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    Earl:
    Earl:

    That's about what I expected. Though I'm trying
    to find ways to extend my stay in Japan, I realize
    that I probably won't be able find exactly what I'm
    looking for anytime in the near future. On the other
    hand, what I think I can do is lay the ground work
    for a later date. What I am hoping to do in the coming year is gather as much information as I can so that when I
    (hopefully) make my residence more or less permanent some
    time in the future, I'll have a better idea of what's out there.
    I admit to being a little curious though, your comments
    make it sound as if the basic technique of drawing and shooting the bow is very similar despite the stylistic diffrences between indvidual schools, enough so that a background in modern Kyudo is an asset rather then the liablity it might be when " crossing over " in some other
    arts. If that's the case, maybe I should just worry about getting involved and worry about the complicated things
    down the line.

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    Mike:

    My guess is that learning modern kyudo will be much more of an asset than a hinderance. I have watched the Satsuma Heki Ryu in action, and the main difference between what they do and what modern kyudo archers do is that they simply shoot much faster. The mechanics of the draw are, in their fundamentals, very much the same. On thing that is different is that rather than wearing helmets they wear hats called eboshi, which do not interfere with the path of the string as the bow is drawn. Consequently, they can draw the arrow to the cheek, as is done in modern kyudo. In actual battle, however, archers would be wearing helmets, and the cheek and neck armor would make it impossible to draw the arrow to the cheek. Thus, the arrow was drawn either to the chin or to the chest. There are many old pictures showing this method. Heki Danjo, for instance, is shown drawing the bow that way. While I am interested in looking into whether or not anyone still shoots the bow like this any more (this is never seen in modern kyudo) I have not made any concerted efforts in this direction.

    Earl
    Earl Hartman

  7. #7
    Mike Praskey Guest

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    Earl:

    Very intresting, I'll keep that in mind and try to make
    some inqueries when I get there to see if there are people
    still practicing that form of Kyudo. If nothing else it
    would be intresting to know. Thanks for all your help.

    Mike.

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    Mike:

    Let me know what you find out. Work and family prevent me from undertaking a research trip at this time.

    Earl
    Earl Hartman

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    I have a question for Hartman-dono. I am reading a book called "Nihonshi Kohyakka-Budo" by Tokyodo Shuppan and am browsing through its sister-book "Bushi". Maybe you are familiar with them. It is a compilation of essays by academics and researchers (alot of whom seem to be alumus of Kokugakuin Daigaku somehow, but anyway) on a variety of topics. It is quite comprehensive in that it covers ancient warfare, works through Yayoi, and gets more detailed from there. They have several articles and mentions of Kyujutsu, Kyubajutsu, etc., incluing many of the more well known schools (such as Heki and its branches). As resources they used many japanese texts (oogles might be a more appropriate word), so, instead of tracking all of these down to get a look at whether they are what i am looking for, i was wondering if you had any recommendations for books that covered Kyujutsu and/or Kyubajutsu fairly comprehensively? Ican always run down to Takayama Honten and check the shelves or request a search. Thanks.

    Greg Ellis
    Grandmaster of Strawberry Cheesecake-Ryu
    Greg Ellis
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    Question

    Earl,

    Does anyone in Japan teach Hankyû that you know of?

    In the Bujinkan, were suppossed to learn Kyûjutsu which includes Hankyû and Kishajutsu. Its part of Togakure-ryû Ninjutsu and Kukishin-ryû Happô Bikenjutsu, but its not taught actively in the Bujinkan

    I wonder how different it is from Kyûdô?

    Thanks,
    Eric
    Eric Weil
    "Kuji first, Taijutsu last"

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    Greg:

    There are two books on kyujutsu/kyudo that I can recommend:

    "Gendai Kyudo Koza", published by Yuuzankaku Publishing. This is a set of seven volumes that covers various aspects of kyudo. You must buy the whole set, but I don't remember how much I paid for it. It is very comprehensive, and is a newer version of an older 12 volume set called Kyudo Koza, I believe. I do not know if this older set is still available; I do know that it is available for viewing, at least, at the Diet Library. If Takayama Honten could find a set of these I would be most interested; but I get the impression that a full set is extremely rare and would, as a consequence, be prohibitively expensive.

    The other book is "Kinsei Nihon Kyujutsu No Hatten" by the late Ishioka Hisao. It is published by the Tamagawa Daigaku Publishing Division, I think. This is an excellent volume on the development of the Heki Ryu and all of its branches. It is very concise and presents a detailed analysis of the historicity of Heki Danjo. A really excellent resource if you are heavily into sudying about kyujutsu/kyudo. It even has complete lineages for all of the major branches of the Heki Ryu, some extending up to the very recent past.

    Hope this helps. If you find any neat stuff at Takayama Honten, let me know. I am always on the lookout for anything about kyudo.

    Earl
    Earl Hartman

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    Eric:

    I don't know anything about the Bujinkan and its curriculum, therefore I am not competent to comment in any authoritative way on any differences between archery as taught there and modern kyudo.

    The only thing I can say is that the use of the hankyu (half-bow, or short bow) is not taught in modern kyudo. The bushi normally did not use short bows, and from what very little I know about it, I get the impression that this might have been more of an assassin's weapon, or perhaps a self-defense weapon that might have been carried when it was not feasible to carry a longbow (such as when travelling in a covered sedan chair).

    I heard from a friend of mine in Japan who is/was a member of the Bujinkan that he saw the sensei there (I don't know what his name is) shooting at moving targets with a short bow. I have heard that up until Meiji kyudo archers would sometimes shoot at moving targets or would stand in front of a line of targets in full draw and shoot at different targets in response to shouted commands; but this is no longer done in modern kyudo. As I said, I know very little about the actual practice methods of the older ryu, and since modern kyudo has no martial application any more and is not taught that way, I have seen nothing like this in my own practice. Modern kyudo consists of standing (or sometimes kneeling) and shooting at stationary targets at distances of 30 or 60 meters using a longbow.

    As far as kishajutsu (mounted archery) is concerned, the only two schools that I know of that still teach this are the Ogasawara Ryu and the Takeda Ryu. Since I know nothing about ninjutsu, I have no idea if this would bear any resemblance to any ninjutsu-style mounted archery method.

    Earl
    Earl Hartman

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    Originally posted by Earl Hartman
    Eric:

    I don't know anything about the Bujinkan and its curriculum, therefore I am not competent to comment in any authoritative way on any differences between archery as taught there and modern kyudo.

    The only thing I can say is that the use of the hankyu (half-bow, or short bow) is not taught in modern kyudo. The bushi normally did not use short bows, and from what very little I know about it, I get the impression that this might have been more of an assassin's weapon, or perhaps a self-defense weapon that might have been carried when it was not feasible to carry a longbow (such as when travelling in a covered sedan chair).


    Thanks for the info Earl! I have also heard (where I forget) that the hankyû was also used indoors due to the low ceilings. Just wondering if you heard anything about this too?


    I heard from a friend of mine in Japan who is/was a member of the Bujinkan that he saw the sensei there (I don't know what his name is) shooting at moving targets with a short bow. I have heard that up until Meiji kyudo archers would sometimes shoot at moving targets or would stand in front of a line of targets in full draw and shoot at different targets in response to shouted commands; but this is no longer done in modern kyudo. As I said, I know very little about the actual practice methods of the older ryu, and since modern kyudo has no martial application any more and is not taught that way, I have seen nothing like this in my own practice. Modern kyudo consists of standing (or sometimes kneeling) and shooting at stationary targets at distances of 30 or 60 meters using a longbow.


    Sounds very interesting, would love to try shooting at the duckies for a prize


    As far as kishajutsu (mounted archery) is concerned, the only two schools that I know of that still teach this are the Ogasawara Ryu and the Takeda Ryu. Since I know nothing about ninjutsu, I have no idea if this would bear any resemblance to any ninjutsu-style mounted archery method.
    Ok thanks again, I'll have to look into that! As far as the differences, there can't be much. Just digging, thanks again!
    Eric Weil
    "Kuji first, Taijutsu last"

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    Earl,
    Thanks for the info. I am going down to Takayama tommorrow or next Sunday, and will ask the owner if he has any other nice books on the topic. If i find anything i will let you know (the name AND the price). Thanks again.

    Shihan Greg Ellis
    14th Headmaster of Greasy-Spoon-Izakaya Ryu (Unacknowledged) National Living Treasure
    Greg Ellis
    I like autumn best of all, because its tone is mellower, its colors are richer and it is tinged with a little sorrow. Its golden richness speaks not of the innocence of spring, nor the power of summer, but of the mellowness and kindly wisdom of approaching age. It knows the limitations of life and it is content.

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    I've read a few of the Osprey military books dealing with the samurai, as well as some of Stephen Tunrbull's books. And I have to ask, what tactics did they used for mounted archers? I am especially wonderering about the Sengoku-jidai period. None of these books really ever get into the types of tactics used. I am wondering; considering their earlier experience with the mongols, wether there mounted tactics were influenced by them in any way?

    Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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