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Thread: Kyudo/Kyujutsu Koryu

  1. #31
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    Cool Maybe able to help....

    Hi.
    I think that the Tozando site sells various Kyudo accesories but I am not too sure if they sell Tsuru currently..I'd try e-mailing them and asking though.
    Website is at www.tozando.com
    Abayo...
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  2. #32
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    Default

    You might try Asahi America Kyudogu:

    http://www.kyudo.com/asahiam.html


    If you don't have experience in kyudo it would be a good idea to seek out a qualified teacher before attempting to string or use a yumi. Bamboo yumi in particular are easily damaged, even one shot performed incorrectly could ruin a nice bow for good. The method of shooting is quite different from that of western-style bows.
    Chris Guzik


    "You can never do a kindness too soon,
    because you never know how soon it will be too late."

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #33
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    Default kyudo

    There is this interesting picture I ran across here: http://wwwimp.leidenuniv.nl/~vvliet/IMAGES/OLD2.JPG
    I am curious about the chest protector he is wearing. Is it part of the quiver's harness? It looks alot like the ones worn by female practitioners of kyudo. So any comments by those in the know are greatly appreciated.
    "See what cost a victory. The blood of our enemies is still the blood of men.
    True glory lays in sparring it."
    Louis XV to the Dauphin after the battle of Fontenoy(11 mai 1745).

  4. #34
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    I think I've answered my own question. Looking at another pic on there site, reminded me that when wearing a kimono they will take off the left side. This is so that the bow string will not catch in the kimono. So the guy in the pic looks like he's dressed to go out. I'm thinking part of an escort for his lord or a member of the lord's family. So of course you don't want to be walking around with half your kimono off. And if there is a scurmish, you don't have time to slip the left side of your kimono off. But with the kimono on, the string might catch and send your shot wide of the target. Therefore the breast plate keeps your kimono flat, and stops the string from catching on it. So does this make sense at all to anyone?
    "See what cost a victory. The blood of our enemies is still the blood of men.
    True glory lays in sparring it."
    Louis XV to the Dauphin after the battle of Fontenoy(11 mai 1745).

  5. #35
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    Default ATTENTION Earl Hartman

    Greetings,

    My apologies in contacting you this way, your PM box is full and your account does not allow for email to be sent to you.

    I have come across a copy of Hans Jochim Stein's KYUDO: THE ART OF ZEN ARCHERY at my library. The Zen reference tends to put me off because I am aware of the strong criticisms of Herrigel's book.

    I am wondering if you would recommend this book. I am, by the way, not a kyudoka myself but just someone interesting in Japanese martial arts.

    Thank you,
    Al Heinemann
    Al Heinemann
    www.shofukan.ca

  6. #36
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    I wouldn't recommend it. The only really good book about kyudo in English that is easily obtainable is "Kyudo: The Essence and Practice of Japanese Archery" By Onuma and DeProspero.

    I have Stein's book and couldn't really get through it. There seemed to be some worthwhile stuff in it, as I recall (I tried reading it years ago) but there was too much bloviating about sprituality, which always puts me off.

    If you can find a little book called "Japanese Archery" by William Acker, it is also worth reading. Acker was roughly contemporaneous with Herrigel, and practiced Bishu Chikurin style kyujutsu in Kyoto before WWII. While I'm pretty sure the book is out of print, it is pretty good. Very straightforward, clear, and easy to understand.
    Earl Hartman

  7. #37
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    Default acker's book

    Earl (and Allan)

    Acker's book has been republished. I saw it on the shelves of Kinokuniya yesterday.

    Eric
    Eric Montes

  8. #38
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    To Earl and Eric,

    Thank you for your help.

    Regards,
    Al Heinemann
    www.shofukan.ca

  9. #39
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    Well, good. It is interesting to compare Acker and Herrigel; they were in the same country practicing the same art at roughly the same time, but the two books could hardly be more different.

    Anyway, DeProspero and Acker are the way to go; Acker's book is little more than a long pamphlet, but addresses the basics quite well; DeProspero gives a more thorough presentation and deals with the history and philosophical side of kyudo in more detail than does Acker. In particular, the question-and-answer between teacher and student at the end of deProspero's book is, by itself, worth the price.

    Also, you should be aware that Acker does not discuss kyudo in broad general terms, he discusses specifically the Bishu Chikurin school that he learned.
    Earl Hartman

  10. #40
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    Photos of Acker in shootin' togs appear at http://wwwimp.leidenuniv.nl/~vvliet/acker.html

    The book is 88 pages, and US $9.95. It's also available in French.

  11. #41
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    Default A Question for Mr. Hartman

    Hi Mr. Hartman,
    I have a question regarding Kyudo/kyujutsu. First of all I must admit I have no formal training in kyudo. I have never even handled a japanese style bow for that matter. I have read various articles about the subject. And I must admit my interest in kyudo started with the book, "Kyudo:Zen and the art of archery" by Mr. Herrigel. I have also read Mr. Yamada's article on that book. It was a quite interesting read. My question is," When you are practicing archery do you always wear a "yugake"? Or do you also practice without it? I was thinking an archer sometimes could find him/herself in a situation where s/he does not have time to put one on. If you practice without a yugake is the shooting style different and does the string have any affects on your fingers?

    Thank you in advance for your answer.

    P.S. I did not know where to post this question since there is not a specific Kyudo forum. If this thread is not suitable for this forum please move it to to appropriate one.
    Emre Dikici

  12. #42
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    In modern kyudo, the archer always wears a yugake. The original type of stiff-wrist, hard-thumbed yugake that is used universally in kyudo today was developed for use in the toshiya to allow the archer to shoot as many arrows as possible with as little fatigue as possible. Because the thumb is made of a hollowed-out piece of wood and is provided with a groove for the string, the archer does not need to use a lot of strength in his thumb and fingers to draw the bow.

    This type of glove, obviously, was never used in battle, since wearing it renders it impossible to grip a sword or other weapon after one's arrows have all been shot and one has to resort to close-quarter fighting. The archers of the Satsuma Heki Ryu for example, which maintains the practice of battlefield kyujutsu of the Shimazu han in Kyushu, use a glove with a heavily padded thumb, but the thumb is soft and flexible and does not interfere with the free use of the hand. AFAIK, the yugake that is used in yabusame is simply a tight-fitting glove of soft deerskin, the thumb of which is reinforced with rawhide where the string is drawn.

    I have experimented with drawing a bow without a hard-thumb glove. It is not impossible, but if the bow is over, say, 18-20 kilograms in draw weight, without some kind of glove which protects the inside of the thumb, it would be impossible to shoot more than a few arrows (unless one has a pretty high threshold of pain). However, it seems to me that if the inside surface of the thumb were sufficiently protected, say with a combination of padding and/or rawhide (that would serve the same purpose as the continetal Asian thumb ring), it would be possible to shoot a fairly strong bow without much problem.

    There are some people in Japan who are experimenting with soft-thumbed gloves since if the bow is too weak, learning to properly use a hard-thumbed glove is quite difficult. However, as far as I know a soft-thumbed glove is only really suitable for bows <15 kg. in draw weight.

    This is an interesting area, and I look forward to further research on this subject.
    Last edited by Earl Hartman; 12th January 2004 at 21:50.
    Earl Hartman

  13. #43
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    Hi Earl!

    What about those teeny-tiny "waraji"? Just playing around, I used to place my index finger through the waraji's loop, then pinch & twist the string with the thumb/forefinger -- fully padded by the waraji.

    Now, I don't know if that was the appropriate use of those thingamajigs, but it worked.

    Cheers,
    Guy
    Guy H. Power
    Kenshinkan Dojo

  14. #44
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    Hm. I had never thought to use a waraji like that.

    I doubt that you could draw a very strong bow with the pinch-draw method you described.

    However, it is unclear exactly when the Japanese went over fully to the Mongolian draw that is used today. Artwork from the Heian/Kamakura period indicates that in Ye Olden Dayes of Yore the draw was somewhat different, although it is hard to tell exactly what they were doing.

    Also, it is still uncear to me exactly how strong war bows were during the feudal perisod. The early bows were essentially self bows, with the laminated construction reaching the peak of sophistication as a result of the popularity of the toshiya during the Edo Period, but I have heard it said that toshiya bows were roughly equivalent in strength to modern kyudo bows, which are generally about 17-19 kg for men. In Kanazawa, I saw a bow in a museum that had been used by a man named Okura (a native of Kaga, where Kanazawa is located) in the toshiya, where he set a number of records. It did not look particularly strong. On the other hand, I saw video of Awa Kenzo (Herrigel's teacher) shooting a bow that looked like it was easily about 30 kg in draw weight (almost 70 pounds). You also hear stories from Ye Olden Dayes of Yore about "3 men bows" referring to the number of men it took to string them. Unfortunately, there are few if any actual bows from pre-Edo times still extant, so it is really hard to say.
    Earl Hartman

  15. #45
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    Mr. Hartman,
    Thanks for your reply. I also have another question if you don't mind. In Mr. Yamada's paper he writes that Awa Kenzo became very good at archery within a two year period of time. On the other hand Herrigel supposedly spend three years shooting at makiwara targets. In his book he also says that first time he shot at 28 yards his arrows did not even reach the target. Now I know that Herrigel's practice time is nowhere close to Kenzo's practice time but why do you think there is such a difference in achieving proficiency in kyudo? Can it be because Herrigel was trying to understand zen and thinking about kyudo as a tool to achieve it? Or is it because Awa Kenzo was an extraordinarily talented person?
    Thanks again
    Emre Dikici

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