More info
Here are the posts on that subject which went out some time last year or before for those who wanna (or gotta) know:
--------
Terry
Member posted 10-21-1999 18:23
Anyone have any info on John Denora and
his Daito Ryu U.S.A also did he recive
Kyoju Dairi Certificate ( is this right )
I know he is listed as Judan in Daito Ryu
( U.S.A ) Jujutsu in a shokeship group
by Frank Sanchez?
Terry
------------------
Keep Going !!!!!
Nathan Scott
Member posted 10-21-1999 18:34
Hello,
Mr. Denora has been affiliated with ligitimate Daito ryu branchs in the
past, but is no longer aligned with anyone. I don't know what if any kind
of rank or certification he has received from these groups in the past, or
for how long/seriously he studied.
I can tell you I met him once or twice in passing, and he enthusiastically
issued Daito ryu membership cards on the spot to the majority of the people
in the room, writing the names in by hand.
Mr. Denora resides in San Diego.
HTH,
------------------
Nathan Scott
Shinkendo/ Aiki Buken Honbu dojo
Tsuki Kage dojo
Kempo Guy
Member posted 10-22-1999 15:41
Mr. Denora has a Jun Kyoju Dairi Ceritification issued by the late Yonezawa
Sensei of the Daito Ryu Bokuyokan. I was told he actually travelled to
Hokkaido and stayed with Yonezawa Sensei to learn Daito Ryu as well.
He was also a long time student of F. Lovret of the Yamate Ryu and Tenshin
Ryu, although I believe his study was mainly in the Tenshin Ryu.
He was also at one time a student of Kiyama Sensei of the Kodokai, although
I do not know for how long.
I believe he also has a 7th Dan ranking in Danzan Ryu Jujutsu, although I
have heard it is an honorary rank. I think he also has a Shodan ranking in
Yoshinkan Aikido as well under Sam Combes Sensei.
As for his tenth degree ranking in one of the soke groups......
He founded his Daito Ryu USA and Daito Ryu International as a "study group"
to perpetuate the teachnings of Sokaku Takeda and Denora's teacher,
Yonezawa Sensei.
He is a very interesting character and is quite knowledgeable in regards to
the martial arts, both Japanese and Chinese, as he was also involved in
Chinese Martial Arts for a long time.
As for his skill in Daito Ryu I can not really comment much on. He does
know the Bokuyokan curriculum, although he also teaches stuff from the
mainline AikiBudo techniques (I have no idea as to where he was taught
these.....) He has not been aligned with the Bokuyokan for several years,
although he kept in touch with Yonezawa Sensei. Also as far as I know, he
never issued rank through the Bokuyokan, only through his own organization.
Hope this helps.
Steven Resell
[This message has been edited by Kempo Guy (edited 10-23-1999).]
Toby Threadgill
Member posted 10-25-1999 14:16
Terry,
The fact that Mr Denora promoted a notorious charlatan in New York who was
a nidan in Yoshinkan Aikido to rokudan in Aikijujutsu says it all to me.
Check out a letter to the editor in Aikido Journal Vol.26, No. 1 .......
Toby Threadgill
Soryushin Dojo
George Kohler
Moderator posted 10-25-1999 15:29
Hi Toby,
This notorious charlatan wouldn't be a guy, by the name Graham, would it?
------------------
George Kohler
Genbukan Kusakage Dojo
Kempo Guy
Member posted 10-26-1999 23:51
I have seen Denora "give" out ranks to other instructors (some are
notorious) as well.
I am also familiar with the person in question as well, although this
person I believe is aligned with a different organization these days.
Steven Resell
[This message has been edited by Kempo Guy (edited 10-27-1999).]
Ron Tisdale
Member posted 10-28-1999 10:25
I don't know if this is the same guy, but I did see a "graham" from new
york demonstrate at a Yoshinkan seminar recently. *I* certainly wouldn't
call him a "charlatan" to his face. While he was far from the best at the
demonstation, he was definately more than adequate. Can anyone point me to
an online reference for the letter to the editor in Aikido Journal Vol.26,
No. 1? I'd really like to see it.
Ron Tisdale
hisashi otake
New Member posted 11-10-1999 14:23
Denora got his nidan from the late Yonezawa,
his stay at Yonezawa's residence was maybe a month or so in the early
eighties.
MC Busman
New Member posted 11-11-1999 06:44
It's late/early, so please excuse the choppiness. . .
Regarding John Denora, mention was made of the letter in Aiki Journal Vol.6
no.1. The situation is better understood if one also has the opportunity to
read the letters on pg.5 of vol.25 no.2, and pgs.4-5 of vol.25 no.3. Both
letters deal with "Bogus Daito Ryu Rankings" and include replies from
editor Stanley Pranin. Worth reading, but too complex to discuss in toto
here. The gist of the writer & editor's irritation revolves around Denora's
(and now others) use of the title/rank grandmaster 10th dan in Daito Ryu,
and the certificates he hands out like candy (very expensive candy) with no
requirement to demonstrate or learn complete d.r. technique. Graehm Lewis
(sp?), an Aikido 2nd dan at the time was one of the first recipients of
Denora's promotions--to 7th dan, then 6th after a single seminar (Pranin of
the Aikido Journal, unlike me, has the decency and grace not to mention
specific names).
The major problems I see with this are as follows. Denora himself does
_not_ make any sort of effort to explain to fellow teachers or students
that 1. his 10th dan rank is an honor bestowed by fellow (mostly US)
martial artists in Sanchez's group, and has nothing to do with his
proficiency or actual ranking in traditional Daito Ryu, but is rather a
sign of respect for his age, years of studying different martial arts, the
fact that he has friends who, like all others who are promoted by this sort
of organization, were willing to recommend & approve him. 2. That Daito Ryu
USA is simply a study group composed of interested individuals who want to
preserve the teachings of Yonezawa and other D.R. greats. But then, a study
group wouldn't issue ranks like that. . .
Having watched him perform a few years back at a seminar/banquet, and
having spoken recently with a former student of his, John Denora's D.R.USA
is not straight "traditional" Daito Ryu, but includes techniques he has
gleaned from other teachers (including aiki & sword with Lovrett who
introduced him to Yonezawa & co, and whomever he studied under during his
Bak fu Pai days--someone also mentioned his recent 1st dan in Yoshinkan
Aikido, and I've heard that he was a godan or rokudan in Judo years back?)
and even videos. No, I don't think that there's anything wrong with that!
But if compiling techniques from so many different sources, why use the
name Daito Ryu? Just my opinion, but strikes me as misleading, and gives
the wrong impression about legit D.R. schools. . .
Now as to some of my recent conversations w/ a former student. According to
this person, Mr. Denora apparently has a habit of badmouthing people to
others, being very verbally abusive towards his students, and occasionally
throws tantrums in class. The student seemed puzzled over his behavior, not
bitter or angry with him--actually expressed concern and wondered if this
was a personality flaw he couldn't help, or maybe something related to an
organic health problem. . .who knows. Due to _my_ skepticism, actually sent
me a copy of a video of a seminar which Denora did that opens with him
basically telling the seminar participants how unworthy they were of his
presence, and of Daito Ryu! 'Course, we all have our bad days
Having said this what I did witness him demonstrate, both in person years
back and on the tape from his student showed a fair level of skill. If his
student's contentions are to be believed, it is a pity that he doesn't have
the temperment and good judgement to go along with these skills.
Daito Ryu USA should be considered a modern, _hybrid art_ with _some_
kodokai D.R. influence.
*busman*
------------------
"The facts speak for themselves"
--Euripides
M.C. Busman
mc_busman@Bigmailbox.net
"May the Wind at Your Back Always be Your Own"
--Anonymous Co-Worker