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Thread: iaijutsu and kenjutsu

  1. #16
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    Thumbs up Western Students

    All,

    Two of my teachers, Toma Seiki & Toma Shian, studied directly under Uehara Sensei. They each taught elements of Motobu-Ryu, although their teaching of Motobu-Ryu was really adjunct to their teaching of Shorin-Ryu. My original Shodan menjo from Toma Shian is a Motobu-Ryu menjo, signed by Uehara Sensei.

    Boulahfa Mimoun Abdel-Lah of Spain was a direct student of Uehara Sensei, as well as a student of Toma Shian Sensei. As best as I can recall, he was graded to 7th Dan in Motobu-Ryu by Uehara Sensei himself.

    Roy J. Hobbs

  2. #17
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    Andreas,

    You asked for comments. On the basis of my limited knowledge of Motobu Udun Di I can confirm that in addition to Boulahfa Mimoun Abdel-Lah that Sensei Hobb's mentions as having studied under Seikichi Uehara and achieving 7th Dan under him (confirmed also in an interview with Uehara Sensei in 1996 by Florence) others mentioned in an interview with richard Florence in JAMA that there was also a Robert Bryner of Los Angeles, about whom I know nothing, in addition to another American, who at the time was not named and who had only just become a student after the interview (Florence 1996:880). I believe that the other American could have been Jody Paul, but not sure of the year he first trained with Uehara perhaps Sensei Hobbs knows?

    There is also Denis Branchaud of the Kodokai in Rhode Island who is a student of Motobu Ryu Udun Di under Takeo Miyagi and Ryosu Taira, the website has an information leaflet and some videos of kodokai visits to Okinawa and can be found here: http://www.branchdojo.com/ourmartial...alacehand.html.

    Robert Rivers, who contributes to this forum occassionally, has also had some Motobu Udun Di training under Chosei Motobu, who now officially heads both of the Motobu family styles.

    There is currently another American training in Motobu Ryu Udun Di in Tokyo who took this video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fmUEDqqj8hQ I gather that he trains under an Ikeda Shihan, only know of him through some discussions on another forum.

    Hubert Laenen of Belgium is a direct student and representative of Shiroma Seihan. Shiroma was a direct student of Seikichi Uehara. Shiroma calls his own style Moudi Motobu Ryu Gassen Tuite Rengokai.

    I am unaware of quite how many other westerners may have picked up some Motobu Ryu Goshin Jutsu from having trained with the likes of Shian Toma and Seiki Toma that Sensei Hobb's mentions in additional to others (i.e. Seikichi Odo) who may like him have picked up Motobu Ryu adjunct to other karate and kobudo material they have studied. This would of course also include people who have trained at Seitoku Higa's Bugeikan at various points in time, who have come from England, France and Scandinavia.

    I would be interested to know if you have any more information on these Ryukan handles that were placed on the Japanese and Chinese bladed weapons?

    Regards
    Chris Norman

  3. #18
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    Hobbs san, Chris san,

    thanks for the detailed input. Personally I never doubted that there are no "Western students" in Motobu udundi. It was just that this nice old man said it, for whatever reason, from whatever perspective, I really don't know. Maybe he was looking for a student???

    Chris, I promise giving you the short info and source I have on the sword handles next week. You probably want to contact the author himself. It's an interesting and also important point in the discussion, with Motobu udundi often technically compared with Japanese mainland ryuha while at the same time not noting the historical and cultural differences.
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

  4. #19
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    Hello,

    there are two more school of Ryukyu Kobudo where they train with the sword, in the Kenshinryu of Hayashi and in the Shorin Ryu Siu Sin Kan (a german stil that should be connected with the Shorin Ryu Seibkukan). Perhaps that could help you a little.

    Sincerly

    Thomas

  5. #20
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    Thomas,

    I believe that the sword training in Hayashi Kenshin Ryu is actuallly of Japanese origin, perhaps from the Mugei Ryu that Shogo Kuniba practised. This video on youtube: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzc3lsacKNI would seem to suggest Japanese sword work also.

    I do not know enough about Shorin Ryu Siu Sin Kan to be able to comment on their sword work, though would be interested in knowing more about them and where their sword work may have come from.

    Regards
    Chris Norman

  6. #21
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    Thumbs up Hayashi & Kuniba

    Chris,

    You are correct regarding the ryu/ha being demonstrated in the clip being from Mugei-Ryu. The gentleman in white is Kuniba Sensei. It was his version of Mugei-Ryu which I first studied in the late 60s, early 70s.

    Roy

    Roy J. Hobbs

  7. #22
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    Good day Hobbs sensei,

    So happy to see you active in E-Budo. Regarding the sword-work, I wonder when can we see any clips of our Dentokan Iai be put in our website? It will surely be edifying for our members.

    BTW, I'd like to say merry christmas to all Dentokan family. We may be separated by oceans and continents, but we are one in spirit!
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  8. #23
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    Guys,

    Please note a correction to post 17 made by myself. Where I stated that
    'there is another American training in Motobu Udun Di in Tokyo who took this video http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fmUEDqqj8hQ' This is an error.

    The comment should have read: 'whom in a discussion on another forum indicated a link to videos of his dojo senpai in some demonstrations, which can be found at: http://www.geocities.jp/shudoukanjp/new_page_28.htm '.

    Regards
    Chris Norman

  9. #24
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    Regarding Ryukyuan ken-jutsu, this may answer some questions:
    http://motobu-ryu.org/weapons_en.aspx

    Aaron Meldahl
    Last edited by mugitani; 12th February 2009 at 00:43. Reason: forgot signature

  10. #25
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    Aaron,
    You have indeed been very busy, extremely nice work. The table is really useful.
    Thank You.

    Regards
    Chris Norman

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nico storm View Post
    Hi guys

    I was hoping someone could help me out here. I have had contact on another site with someone who is eluding, I say eluding as my question are never outrightly answered, to be learning Okinawan iaijutsu and kenjutsu. I have been unable to find any information about sword schools from Okinawa, but I thought someone here would be far more likely to have answers.

    Um...that doesn't exist. Perhaps Okinawa had a genuine sword art somewhere, but it isn't going to be with the Japanese Katana, and most likely won't be a quick-draw art like iai.

    I wouldn't count on finding a sword art, even if it does exist. Okinawa is pretty proud of it's weapon bans. You will notice that the kobu weapons are not straight-up battlefield weapons like swords, spears, and axes. It is all farm implements and disassembled weapons. I haven't even seen Okinawan knife-fighting.

    Some Karate schools do teach a modern ken/iai curriculum to help with precision.
    Eric Peter ("Pete") Ramberg

  12. #27
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    I just had a look at some of the links. Did the Okinawans really call their art, "Kenjitsu" or did they have another name for it? Perhaps I missed something.
    Eric Peter ("Pete") Ramberg

  13. #28
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    Please have a look at this:
    http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...Smits_SF06.pdf
    apparently, there were even firearms (p.8) and cannon (p.12) in Ryukyu. It seems pretty clear that the aristocracy also possessed swords.

    Motobu Choki sensei uses the term ken-jutsu in his book. The website I posted earlier also gives terms for sword techniques particular to Ryukyu.

    Aaron Meldahl

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugitani View Post
    Please have a look at this:
    http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...Smits_SF06.pdf
    apparently, there were even firearms (p.8) and cannon (p.12) in Ryukyu. It seems pretty clear that the aristocracy also possessed swords.

    Motobu Choki sensei uses the term ken-jutsu in his book. The website I posted earlier also gives terms for sword techniques particular to Ryukyu.

    Aaron Meldahl
    Grad school project? I didn't get to read the whole thing because I have to go to work. Sorry about that.

    I did see the Motobu Ryu videos with the short swords. I am kind of curious how they used the Japanese swords modified to be one-handed. Is there any video of that? I am also curious why they modified them to be one handed. More accurately, what were they holding in their other hand?
    Eric Peter ("Pete") Ramberg

  15. #30
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    Eric (Pete?),

    The link I posted was to the text of a presentation given by Gregory Smits, who is one of the foremost historians of Ryukyu writing in English. Providing people with the link is I believe more informative than me just saying "oh yes, they did have weapons."

    I have seen demonstrations of one-handed sword usage. I'm not at liberty to post the video on my own. Maybe eventually it will pop up on one of the Motobu-ryu sites. Often (but not always) the other hand (left or right) is holding the scabbard, as mentioned on the website.

    Aaron Meldahl

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