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Thread: McDojo's

  1. #46
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    Default Afterthought, Egos.

    Oh, Andrew, just an afterthought.

    Here's another problem with slagging off other arts. It breeds, I think, narrow mindedness and egotism, which are both a big handicap in progress in many endeavours in life, especially sparring arts. A narrow mind and a big ego can paralyze growth.

    Narrow mindedness will shut you off to new technical possibilities, even if you're a Muay Thai or BJJ fanatic and only want to compete. A massive handicap when combined with Ego. I'm not even talking about being openly arrogant -- maybe even just privately, quietly protecting your ego.

    The Ego can make you:

    * Dangerous to yourself and others
    * Unwilling to take risks and tryout new things (for fear of failure).
    * A bully
    * A pain to do randori with.
    * Slow down the reception of information.

    It was a bit of a breakthrough for me when one experienced wrestling, boxing, and BJJ coach said, more or less, training for humility was important to technical progress. He was talking all Yoga like.

    Check your Ego at the door. It's something most people will have to work on forever.

    For me, the sparring throws up a personal challenge nearly every time I get on the mat. It's like a Zen mirror. And most of the benefits come off the mat, in the battle of daily life. But for me, it's the intensity and challenge of getting thrown, or choked, or tapped, or whatever, that brings out those lessons.

    I'll pass on the full-contact boxing or Muay Thai, tho at a lower intensity. They're a key part of the equation as well.

    But really, it's the battle of life that is most relevant to most martial arts pilgrims. We live at a wonderful time when people have a much wider choice of training protocol, be it, five-animal kung fu, or origami.

    Whatever keeps you training.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    ..MMA cage training and grappling on gym-mats is certainly not the street. But in terms of learning to fight, it sure beats, static two-person kata with no resistance..
    Yup, very true, without a doubt!

    That's why, Aikikai Aikido and traditional Jujutsu are not best choices for the military.

    As a jujutsuka, I have to say, that the closest to free randori that we have in traditional Jujutsu is something called "goshin jutsu ohyo" where Uke attacks Tori in a non-predetermined way, and the attack is real powerful (no punch pulled, no kicks retracted, all holds are full force). The attack are all single-attack just like in Kata practice, but done without choreography.

    still, the Tori have react properly, or else he/she will got punched or kicked for real. Usually this kind of training is done after the students has completed the 1st series of Katas. This is what later evolved into the "Duo System Competition" in modern-day JJIF Sport Jujitsu competitions.

    In Funakoshi sensei's early Shotokan Dojo (the Gigo era), there was a "Jiyu Ippon Kumite", a kind of one-step sparring but with full power kicks and punches.

    Are they still practiced these days Andrew san? Or have it became fully evolved into Jiyu Kumite and forgotten?

    Anyway, the weakness of the 2-person Kata is obvious, but then again, 2-person Kata is just a method to learn the entire syllabus of the art. It is not sacred and infallible, it can be complemented with other training methods. A good instructor should be able to teach the syllabus and find a way to increase the effectiveness of the students without sacrificing the art by turning it into something else which isn't it. That's why I personally admire Tomiki Aikido with their balanced system between Koryu no Kata and Aiki Randori. They even have competitions in Randori, which is very interesting.

    If there is a Tomiki Aikido dojo in Jakarta, and the instructor is a good one, I will enroll and happily restart as a Mudansha!
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post
    Thanks, Ben. You pretty much summed up most of my feelings on the subject.
    Good, so I don't have to do that 20 pushups
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_lord_b3 View Post
    In Funakoshi sensei's early Shotokan Dojo (the Gigo era), there was a "Jiyu Ippon Kumite", a kind of one-step sparring but with full power kicks and punches.

    Are they still practiced these days Andrew san? Or have it became fully evolved into Jiyu Kumite and forgotten?
    Sorry to butt in, but I thought I'd point out that it depends on the instructor. Mine, when you're a junior, not really. As you get more able to handle it, yup. One-step sparring with unpredictable attacks is something I've definitely done in class.
    I've also done that in a demonstration, though that was more by accident. The person I was working with had forgotten the sequence of attacks we were demonstrating! I still managed to take him down in a controlled manner.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    MMA cage training and grappling on gym-mats is certainly not the street. But in terms of learning to fight, it sure beats, static two-person kata with no resistance.
    Indeed. I'm of the opinion that kata training should evolve. I've done some aikido kumitachi (essentially a paired sword kata) with some very senior people and found it quite scary. The attacks came in fast and hard - not static. Also, if my kamae was wrong, I could expect a stab NOT found in the kata sequence - again, not static, and not non-resisting.

    I haven't been able to do much in the way of karate in the last couple of years. Our dojo does occasionally engage in jiyu ippon, but with the attacks designated. We've also done okuri ippon kumite, in which there is a second attack, and similar drills. Again, the experience can be quite scary, since the second attack is usually not designated, and you need to keep extra-alert.
    Andrew Smallacombe

    Aikido Kenshinkai

    JKA Tokorozawa

    Now trotting over a bridge near you!

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Johnson View Post
    Sorry to butt in, but I thought I'd point out that it depends on the instructor. Mine, when you're a junior, not really. As you get more able to handle it, yup. One-step sparring with unpredictable attacks is something I've definitely done in class.
    We do that a lot in Wado-ryu, but only done by the students who had completed the 10-set Yakusoku Kumitegata series. For some reasons, 5th & 4th Kyus are allowed to do Jiyu Kumite (non contact) before they do the Jiyu Ippon! So the Jiyu Ippon is considered more advanced!

    I've also done that in a demonstration, though that was more by accident. The person I was working with had forgotten the sequence of attacks we were demonstrating! I still managed to take him down in a controlled manner.
    Whoa.. happens all the time! That's why rehearsing before demo is important!
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post
    Indeed. I'm of the opinion that kata training should evolve. I've done some aikido kumitachi (essentially a paired sword kata) with some very senior people and found it quite scary.
    I won't do that! I hate sharp pointy things! Where is their sense of safety? Paired Kata with sword is OK, but semi-sparring with sword? Not Ok!

    We've also done okuri ippon kumite, in which there is a second attack, and similar drills. Again, the experience can be quite scary, since the second attack is usually not designated, and you need to keep extra-alert.
    Yes, we have it too, it's the two-step sparring. We also have sanbon kumite, the three-step sparring. It's nice to know that there are still similarities between Shotokan and Wado-ryu training methods, despite our parting of ways in 1934.
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_lord_b3 View Post
    Whoa.. happens all the time! That's why rehearsing before demo is important!
    We had rehearsed, copiously. He was my senior, think he was just having a "senior moment!"

    And I think the sword kata from the above post was done with bokken, yes? Much safer, for you and the sword.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_lord_b3 View Post
    I won't do that! I hate sharp pointy things! Where is their sense of safety? Paired Kata with sword is OK, but semi-sparring with sword? Not Ok!
    Sorry, my bad. I didn't explain it clearly enough. Kumitachi is the name for what is essentially a paired kata - we just don't call it kata. It is NOT sparring. The same applies to kumijo, which is essentially paired jo kata.
    My point was about static, lifeless paired kata vs. kata with intent - think yakusoku kumite with full-power attacks aimed just short of target - you know (hope) you won't get hit if your block is off, but it is a scary feeling, right?

    (And sensei would get very upset if someone got hurt during practice)

    Maybe the moderators should split this thread as it has drifted away from McDojos to training methods.
    Andrew Smallacombe

    Aikido Kenshinkai

    JKA Tokorozawa

    Now trotting over a bridge near you!

  10. #55
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    thank you for the clarification regarding kumi-tachi, Andrew san

    And I agree that this thread should be split into a new one. Maybe one titled "Non Mc-Dojo Training Methods"

    What do you think, Prince san? (Mr. Moderator)
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_lord_b3 View Post
    thank you for the clarification regarding kumi-tachi, Andrew san

    And I agree that this thread should be split into a new one. Maybe one titled "Non Mc-Dojo Training Methods"

    What do you think, Prince san? (Mr. Moderator)
    Will take matter under consideration. Thanks !
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

  12. #57
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    I know this thread turned more into a what a mcdojo isn't but the bottom line for me across the board determining what a mcdojo is..is when a black belt just really sux. I know I'm over-simplifying it here but the average person that's trained a couple of years knows when a black belt is crap or isn't.
    I don't expect a shodan to be the next Anderson Silva, Fumio Demura, Rodrigo Gracie, Francisco Filho, etc. I expect a shodan to be able to do a damn front stance right and maybe have a half decent mae geri and jodan tsuki, though.
    Brian Culpepper

  13. #58
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    Personally I think a shodan should have a good grasp of their chosen basics, and they should also have a grasp of their own strenghs and weaknesses in the wider scheme of things. Some humility is good for the learning process too.
    Paul Greaves
    ''Skill is aquired via sweat equity''

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