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Thread: McDojo's

  1. #16
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    It's all about function isn't it...

    If you want to make someone in a cage tap, then MMA is a good 'art' to learn

    If you want to shoot someone with arrows then Kyudo is a good art to learn

    If you want self defence, Jujutsu, Karate Jutsu or Aikijujutsu etc are good arts to learn

    If you want to win a Taekwondo match, Taekwondo is a good art to learn.

    Aikido isn't better than MMA and MMA isn't better than Aikido.

    Sometimes a self defence art will work in a sporting contest, and sometimes a sport art will work in a self defence situation.
    Simon Keegan 4th Dan
    www.bushinkai.org.uk

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bu-kusa View Post
    So if an Aikidoka techniques won a MMA match by ''tapout'' you wouldnt be interested then?
    Purely hypothetical, you and I know that someone using aikido, or: having primarily trained in aikido, wouldn't win a MMA bout, although there are some locks in aikido that are used in MMA fights.
    Remi Vredeveldt

    "Hysterical knowledge is often mistaken for historical knowledge"

    Boni enim duces non aperto proelio, in quo est commune periculum, sed ex occulto semper adtemptant Vegetius Liber III, 9:5

  3. #18
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    The most awesome thing about aikido is that it can be all things to all people.

    The absolute worst thing about aikido is that it tries to be all things to all people.
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, žonne he ęt guše gengan ženceš longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearaš. - The Beowulf Poet

  4. #19
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    My opinion...which is of course ALWAYS subject to correction and re-evaluation....is that a "McDojo" is place that prioritizes commerce OVER imparting skill to its students.

    Poor business model IMO anyway.
    Chris Thomas

    "While people are entitled to their illusions, they are not entitled to a limitless enjoyment of them and they are not entitled to impose them upon others."

    "Team Cynicism" MVP 2005-2006
    Currently on "Injured/Reserve" list due to a scathing Sarcasm pile-up.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post
    For the sake of brevity, I will summarise the basic arguments of the MMA crowd:

    "The Gracies blah blah, realistic training blah blah UFC blah cage fighting blah traditional stuff is nonsense blah blah Aikido doesn't work blah blah tap out blah blah real fighting blah blah uber!"
    Now that is classic, LMFAO

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    Purely hypothetical, you and I know that someone using aikido, or: having primarily trained in aikido, wouldn't win a MMA bout, although there are some locks in aikido that are used in MMA fights.
    I was using the point to illistrate how comments like that, may of come from faulty logic. Besides since were on a karate forum, I think Lyoto Machida to be a fine example of traditional Karate skills applied to the MMA setting. Im pretty sure he can handle himself on the 'deadly street' too

    edit - I just found this too

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qxm09n5lIMk
    Paul Greaves
    ''Skill is aquired via sweat equity''

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bu-kusa View Post
    So if an Aikidoka techniques won a MMA match by ''tapout'' you wouldnt be interested then?
    Not particularly. The Aikido part was inserted because it is one of the arts the MMA crowd misunderstands the most and loves to slag off in direct proportion to their level of misunderstanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by cxt View Post
    My opinion...which is of course ALWAYS subject to correction and re-evaluation....is that a "McDojo" is place that prioritizes commerce OVER imparting skill to its students.

    Poor business model IMO anyway.
    Unfortunately, there's a sucker born every minute. Plus, humans are, by nature, lazy. We want the goodies without having to work for them. In some ways, catering for the ignorant and lazy IS good business practice.
    Andrew Smallacombe

    Aikido Kenshinkai

    JKA Tokorozawa

    Now trotting over a bridge near you!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post
    Not particularly. The Aikido part was inserted because it is one of the arts the MMA crowd misunderstands the most and loves to slag off in direct proportion to their level of misunderstanding.
    Ive got quite a few friends who train and fight under MMA rules, and ive never heard them 'slag off' any arts, only training regimes, and then mostly because they themselves have trained in those themselves and understand the limitation of their own previous training.

    As an example what do you think of Lyoto Machida and his application of Shotokan principles into MMA?
    Paul Greaves
    ''Skill is aquired via sweat equity''

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bu-kusa View Post
    I was using the point to illistrate how comments like that, may of come from faulty logic. Besides since were on a karate forum, I think Lyoto Machida to be a fine example of traditional Karate skills applied to the MMA setting. Im pretty sure he can handle himself on the 'deadly street' too

    edit - I just found this too

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qxm09n5lIMk
    The vid 'proves' what I have stated already: that there are some shared techniques. The 'traditional martial artist' you mention is a 'striker' (karateka) not an aikidoka. How come?

    And what do you mean exactly when you say 'faulty logic' ?
    Remi Vredeveldt

    "Hysterical knowledge is often mistaken for historical knowledge"

    Boni enim duces non aperto proelio, in quo est commune periculum, sed ex occulto semper adtemptant Vegetius Liber III, 9:5

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bu-kusa View Post
    Ive got quite a few friends who train and fight under MMA rules, and ive never heard them 'slag off' any arts, only training regimes, and then mostly because they themselves have trained in those themselves and understand the limitation of their own previous training.
    Sorry, I should have made myself clear. I was jokingly refering to a number of protein-guzzling keyboard warriors and trolls who post on traditional martial arts sites and forums, saying how it is all a waste of time and will never work in a real-life situation. (And, for some reason, a "real-life situation" always involves one-on-one in a well-lit ring, with no weapons and a referee)
    Quote Originally Posted by bu-kusa View Post
    As an example what do you think of Lyoto Machida and his application of Shotokan principles into MMA?
    I know nothing about Lyoto Machida, so I have no opinion.
    Application of Shotokan principles? It just demonstrates something I've always suspected - certain individuals can use techniques effectively, and there are no superior arts, just superior people.
    Andrew Smallacombe

    Aikido Kenshinkai

    JKA Tokorozawa

    Now trotting over a bridge near you!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Keegan View Post
    It's all about function isn't it...

    If you want to make someone in a cage tap, then MMA is a good 'art' to learn

    If you want to shoot someone with arrows then Kyudo is a good art to learn

    If you want self defence, Jujutsu, Karate Jutsu or Aikijujutsu etc are good arts to learn

    If you want to win a Taekwondo match, Taekwondo is a good art to learn.

    Aikido isn't better than MMA and MMA isn't better than Aikido.

    Sometimes a self defence art will work in a sporting contest, and sometimes a sport art will work in a self defence situation.
    Excellent review, Simon san!

    I guess I should add, you want to make money, take professional boxing and professional wrestling I am VERY sure there are no such things as McBoxingGym and McProwrestlingGym
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post
    Not particularly. The Aikido part was inserted because it is one of the arts the MMA crowd misunderstands the most and loves to slag off in direct proportion to their level of misunderstanding.

    Unfortunately, there's a sucker born every minute. Plus, humans are, by nature, lazy. We want the goodies without having to work for them. In some ways, catering for the ignorant and lazy IS good business practice.
    Very wise words Andrew san. Is there an Andrew fans club around here? I'd like to join
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post
    Sorry, I should have made myself clear. I was jokingly refering to a number of protein-guzzling keyboard warriors and trolls who post on traditional martial arts sites and forums, saying how it is all a waste of time and will never work in a real-life situation. (And, for some reason, a "real-life situation" always involves one-on-one in a well-lit ring, with no weapons and a referee)

    I know nothing about Lyoto Machida, so I have no opinion.
    Application of Shotokan principles? It just demonstrates something I've always suspected - certain individuals can use techniques effectively, and there are no superior arts, just superior people.
    Thank you, I agree, however I would say a least half of his ability is due to a superior focused training regime, arts as such dont matter half as much as the training an individual goes through daily in the dojo / gym / barra.
    Paul Greaves
    ''Skill is aquired via sweat equity''

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    The vid 'proves' what I have stated already: that there are some shared techniques. The 'traditional martial artist' you mention is a 'striker' (karateka) not an aikidoka. How come?

    And what do you mean exactly when you say 'faulty logic' ?
    I used Lyoto Machida as an example, because he was a prime example that over generalizations about peoples abilities based on art (as opposed to training regime, which I belive in the case of Lyoto Machida includes a dan grade in BJJ and much Muey Thai training) not being a overly useful indicator of ability Also this is a karate forum, not an aikido one.
    Paul Greaves
    ''Skill is aquired via sweat equity''

  15. #30
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    Also by faulty logic, I meant generalising what the MMA community (if there is one, I dont know because I dont train in MMA) belive from reading what internet trolls like post, in order to 'wind up' traditional martial artists.

    I think disparaging comments about others drag us (the traditional martial arts) down, and it often looks like sour grapes, to the uninformed reader.
    Paul Greaves
    ''Skill is aquired via sweat equity''

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