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Thread: Aikijujutsu vs Aikido

  1. #121
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Mr Merello

    I am the one who responded quoting Takeda about the defensive nature of its use...go argue with him!


    Since, I am the one who responded to counter these killer/soldier/samurai guys..and tried to give them more of a balance between battlefield and street, am I to assume your comments about not understanding its offensive aspects are directed at me?
    I don't know anything about energy coming out fingertips as I don't believe in KI.
    Anyway, if you are reffering to me, I might have an entirely different response.

    cheers
    Dan

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkF
    As to the comment concerning letting judoka give the physical answer, I agree and not because I am judoka, or more precisely, "only judoka," a term I have heard most of my adult life in judo. I have read so many different stories on Takeda Sokaku "beating up a bunch of judoka" that this original statement being the first I had read on the subject though I have since read it said in different ways, but the standard story is one of showing disdain by this group of judoka at a seminar/demonstration due to Takeda's rapidly aging and shrinking body not to mention the tattered hakama. I read the story of incredibly stupid and unnecessary egoism (provided the story went this way) of five or six judoka, who attacked Takeda, first one, with a "chop" to the forehead in which Sokaku not only avoided it, but in the haste of the judo player (someone who actually would do something like tha cannot be called a "judoka), he, Takeda side stepped the attack, with the adept move everyone should have said to themselves (this guy is goooood!), but then the second judoka steps up and tries to land the same atemi to the same area, and he too ended up on the floor in a pile, while a third did the exact same thing, Takeda noting what was obvious, that the judoka were not going to give up on that same attack. He did this in answer to each and every attack brought by the same judo players, which surprised me, actually, by the second attack. If something does not work, try something else, I said to myself, but to no avail. Stupidity and ego did.

    But as much as the judo players proved how much they had been playing instead of working on alternate attacks, they certainly did not deserve the descriptive "judoka" especially at that time. I don't care whether or not they wer go-kyu or godan, you just do not check your respect at the door, and if someone shows up that perhaps, at the least, give the old man kudos for just being there. Thanks for reading,

    Mark F.
    One of the main reasons why judoka can "provide the answer" is because they mix it up with lots of different opponents (shiai, etc.) and don't just "inbreed" in the dojo - getting into esoterica with partners they train with every day. The reality of effective training is that you must take on unfamiliar opponents and learn to respond on your feet. This can't happen when your partner is so familiar to you that you know what he will do before the practice begins.

    Takeda "trashed" judoka and other folks -- good fighters -- because he knew this truth and had practiced his skills against all comers all his life. He simply rocked. That's not the case with a lot of dojo in which members intellectualize and "do the dance" with each other -- and no one else -- month after month, year after year.

    This is also why you will learn more about real fighting from self-taught street scrappers with no discernable technique.

    Let's make the distinction between "art as intellectual/creative exercise" and pragamatic survival skills. And let's face it. Most of us practice the former. Nothing wrong with that as long as you don't start believing that you're doing the latter.
    Cady Goldfield

  3. #123
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    Dear Dan,

    No one wanted to argue with nobody. Just telling how in Daitoryu the word "defensive" has a different meaning than in most modern Budo. Takeda's "defensive" attitude is much more "offensive" than Aikido one! It's the person who is different, Daitoryu is not an art for bloodthirsty guys who search for a fight, and it is so BECAUSE it's quite hard and bloody for a koryu.
    I said for a koryu! I agree with some of the posts here: don't fool yourselves, maybe with 20 years of practice and great determination you can one day achieve a fraction of the old ability these guys had, if not for else, just for the sheer amount of time they dedicated to training. Even the more dedicated of us are little more than amateurs.

    Then again, I guess we should train more in Daitoryu before talking about it, this said both for people who support and those who don't the art.
    Giacomo Merello

  4. #124
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    There has been a lot of talk about the Japanese battlefield and the martial arts in this thread that I'd like to respond to but don't want to hijack this thread. Therefore, I'm going to be posting some of my thoughts down in the general History and Tradition forum WRT Japanese history and budo.
    Joe Cheavens

    Time flies like the wind.
    Fruit flies like bananas.

    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

  5. #125
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cady Goldfield
    This is also why you will learn more about real fighting from self-taught street scrappers with no discernable technique.
    Nice post Cady! That comment is the brass tack. A fight with these "street fighters" is one of the only ways to tell if your art is being learnt. In training or structured fights, there is a sense of organization, whereas these street fights are unorganized and chaotic. When engaged in one of these unorganized fights, your defense is habitual and you are unable to think it through. These are the times when what you have truly learnt will come into play. Afterwards, if you find yourself thinking I should've done this or that, you know what you need to learn...

    Thanks,
    -Nick
    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

  6. #126
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    Sorry to interrupt folks but has there been a rule change? Maybe I missed a post about not having to supply full real names. I have always felt this to be the most important rule on E-budo and I am hoping it hasn't changed. RD-03 and Aikijujutsu Arts, even if the rules have changed please do the correct thing and post your full real name. Have the courage to stand behind your words or at least slink away quietly. Thank you.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled banter.

    Mark J.

  7. #127
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    Mark,
    Certainly it isnt a great deal about last names. Mine is on my profile anywho, but if people want to remain anonymous, so be it. It's not a matter of cowardice, but rather privacy. God knows its (privacy) fleeting quickly in todays society. But I assure you there will be no "slinking away" of my opinions.

    Just for you Mark,
    Nick Lakin
    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

  8. #128
    Mark Murray Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aikijutsu Arts
    Mark,
    Certainly it isnt a great deal about last names. Mine is on my profile anywho, but if people want to remain anonymous, so be it. It's not a matter of cowardice, but rather privacy. God knows its (privacy) fleeting quickly in todays society. But I assure you there will be no "slinking away" of my opinions.

    Just for you Mark,
    Nick Lakin
    Nick, it actually is a great deal on e-budo. If you don't sign your full name to each post, you can be banned. The rules are posted in each fora under announcement.
    The rule is:
    1. You will need to sign your full name on every post. You will only get three warnings from any E-Budo member.

    If you go to User CP, you can edit your signature to include your full name so you won't have to remember adding it to each of your posts.

    Thanks,

  9. #129
    MarkF Guest

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    Mr. Lakin,

    People with privacy problems do not have to post, then, if they cannot post a full, real name. It may have been my fault as I had noticed that you have not used your name before, and let it go because it was in your profile, but both Marks are correct, it has been a rule here since I began posing here in summer of 1999.


    Mark j. makes a proper point of why the rule is there so it isn't "just for mark" or "for the moderators," it is out of trust and just that little bit of a description about you may lead to a lot more discussion with you involved.

    Since a moderator hadn't warned you, and you have put it in the signature editor, let it slide, but it it no joke, post without it three times after a moderator has warned you of it, you will receive a forced vacation.

    Otherwise, we look forward to what you have to contribute.


    Mark
    Last edited by MarkF; 1st March 2006 at 11:46.

  10. #130
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    My uttermost appologies then to all of you. I thought if your full name was in your profile then it would be fine. Once again, I appologize and will post my full name on each post from now on.

    Thanks,
    -Nick Lakin
    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkF
    It may have been my fault as I had noticed that you have not used your name before, and let it go because it was in your profile, but both Marks are correct, it has been a rule here since I began posing here in summer of 1999.
    This is a setup, right, Mark?

  12. #132
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    Default Shut up and train

    Isn't this where someone says Shut up and train

    James Wilson

  13. #133
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    Default wath is the difference?

    greetings,

    from your perspective, wath is the diference between aikido and aikijujutsu?

    sorry if this question had been made before.

    thanks.
    Luis g. Rodriguez

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeso
    from your perspective, wath is the diference between aikido and aikijujutsu?
    Where have you researched this question before?

    sorry if this question had been made before.
    It has. Many times. See for yourself: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/search.php?
    Don J. Modesto
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    ------------------------
    http://theaikidodojo.com/

  15. #135
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    well did it in warriorsport.com like a year ago but no one responded.
    i asked to an aikido practitioner but he said very litle.

    my main arts are ninjutsu and kenjutsu but i also practice aikijujutsu, and have my own opinion.

    i ask for the pesonal point of view.

    thanks.
    Luis g. Rodriguez

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