The difference between Tomiki Ryu Aikido and Daito Ryu Jujutsu

[NathanielG1]

I am trying to research information to help me select a good dojo to study at. I would like to study Daito Ryu Jujutsu, but have not been able to find any dojos in the state of Washington, so I am trying to find the next best thing in looking for a dojo that teaches pre-war Aikido- which from the posts I have read on this website seems to be pretty closely related to Daito Ryu Jujutsu and has been referred to as almost an offshoot style of Daito Ryu Jujutsu. From what I have read online, Tomiki Ryu Aikido is "pre-war" Aikido and appears to be the style of with the most robust syllabus. I have had the opportunity to see several styles of Aikido demonstrated, including Tomiki Ryu Aikido several years ago, but never have had the opportunity to attend a Daito Ryu demonstration to have a frame of reference to be able to compare the Aikido I see to Daito Ryu Jujutsu. Would someone who studies Daito Ryu Jujutsu or any of the offshoots from mainline Daito Ryu Jujutsu be willing to compare the syllabus taught in Tomiki Ryu Aikido to the syllabus taught in any of the groups of Daito Ryu Jujutsu. How closely does Tomiki Ryu Aikido compare technically to Daito Ryu Jujutsu, and how much of the current Daito Ryu syllubus is included in the Tomiki traditions? I did try to search for a previous link online before I posted this. If I missed it, and this has been discussed previously into the ground, I would be grateful if someone would point me in the right direction via a link. I did find commentary on e-budo that indicated that the Yoshinkan Aikido syllabus (another "pre-war" style of Aikido) is mostly from the "Hiden Morokuru", and I found on Aikiweb an article stating that the Aikikai syllabus includes close to 90% of the Hiden Morukoru, as well as some principles techniques from what was assumed to be higher lists. I like the philosophy of Aikido and the idea of a martial art that heavily emphasizes peaceful living and very defensive oriented strategies of self defense.

I would like to find a school that teaches the technical aspects of Aikido in such a way that I could also use what I learn for self-defense. I have visited a couple of dojos. Thus far, the manner in which the principles, techniques, and strategies of Aikido are drilled in the schools that I have visited don't seem to be structured in a way that would teach a person what they need to successfully defend themselves from anything other than various graps. The striking attacks don't seem realistic, and there seems to be little (actually no) emphasis on kicking or dealing with someone who kicks.

Any information would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Nathaniel Gullion

[Eric Pearson]

Hello friend,

I happen to be a low level instructor in both of these arts. My advice, don't get hung up in style names or people's preconceived notions about what these arts should be. The quality of technical practice, and the friendliness of people vary greatly from school to school. These arts are living arts and they change and evolve rapidly.

I love the Tomiki system, but I don't like how it is practiced everywhere. I love Daito Ryu, but I don't like the way it is practiced everywhere.


I know I often feel like I am in the minority when I say this but....technical skill is not as important as finding a group of people you enjoy spending time with, and taking instruction from. Find people who inspire you and want to to come train with them.

In my humble opinion the root and foundation of solid Budo practice is in relationships. More important than how the dojo does a technique is what is the habits, motivations and spirit that flows through a group.

To answer your question more directly though - in my practice I see them as about the same thing. The Tomiki system has a more clever system of transmitting the art - IMHO, and the Daito Ryu has a historical prestige. Otherwise...basically the same game.


Go check out the dojos in your area. You will know the right one when you see it.


Good luck in your search


Eric Pearson

[lucky1899]

Nat,

I agree with Eric on finding a group of people you enjoy spending time with but I disagree that Tomiki and DRAJJ are the same game. For one, it depends on which Daito Ryu school your speaking of, Mainline and Takumakai look similar but look dramatically different compared with Kodokai and all look different from photos I've seen of Sagawa's schools. Granted it may not matter because I don't think these schools are available in your area.

I'm sure some Tomiki Aikido schools practice closely what some Daito Ryu schools practice but I wouldn't say they are "basically the same game" across the board.

Again, I would find a group of people you enjoy being around. After all, the group you're with will be causing you various kinds of pain, throwing you, and perhaps striking you--you better love them like a brother.

Yours in Budo,

Andrew De Luna
Daito Ryu

[Eric Pearson]

Before I go on....I would like to point out that Mr Deluna and I attended the same Daito Ryu dojo in Japan. So even from students of the same teacher you are going to get a different perspective. In fact we seem to never agree about Daito Ryu, but he is a true practitioner and friend.

The fact is they are both arts dealing in throws, locks and restraints. The body dynamics that are used are generally similar, if not identical. I can look at Daito Ryu technician and call almost all his techniques by Tomiki Ryu names. (right Andrew??) They use the same techniques and have the same lineage of teachers that split very recently.

People like to chop them apart so they have a sense of pride in their identity. Of course there are all kinds or flavors and shapes of all this stuff, but I tend to see the great similarities rather than the minor differences. My study in one art only emphasizes the other.


Walk In Peace,

Eric

[lucky1899]

Eric is indeed an alum of the Renshinkan (later Shofuku) school and I consider him a good friend. In addition to the Renshinkan, I've trained in other Daito Ryu schools and with many Daito Ryu alums not of the Renshinkan.

If you go to youtube (lucky8353 account), Eric named several of the techniques I was executing correctly but DRAJJ doesn't really get hung up on names (except maybe Mainline because of the codification by Tokimune Soke). If you watch the Soden videos of Takumakai, they use a 1, 2, 3 type of naming system. The Renshinkan keeps the "old names" of techniques that would mean almost nothing to most Aikido practitioners.

I also would disagree that there are minor differences between DRAJJ and "most" Aikido schools. I haven't been exposed to Tomiki outside of a few days of training to know similarities and differences but my exposure to Yamada Shihan students and Kato Shihan students lead me to believe the differences are greater than the similarities.

Yours in Budo,

Andrew De Luna
Daito Ryu

[john_lord_b3]

I can look at Daito Ryu technician and call almost all his techniques by Tomiki Ryu names...They use the same techniques and have the same lineage of teachers that split very recently..

I got the same feeling too

[Flintstone]

What's in a name, anyway. The videos shows pretty standard Aikido, IMHO.