One Strike

[Richard Scardina]

I did not know where to put this thread.

As I have been expsoed to many martial artists, some claim how lethal they, or a particular art may be. Thus, making claims how easily can one strike from them or the art can be delivered and cause death.

Are one-strike lethal blows common? (esp in other violent environments)

Is it rare to have people actually getting killed by one-strike blows?

[Juan Perez]

I remember that a moderator in the Karate forum (here on E-budo) had started a discussion along the lines you have proposed above. I think it would be good to add to that discussion, already underway. There is some feedback on it (about 8 posts). Take a look.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19469

[DDATFUS]

Are one-strike lethal blows common? (esp in other violent environments)

In the art that I study they are very common. Then again, I study a sword art...

[cxt]

Ddatfus

[Bill Sampson]

In the art that I study they are very common. Then again, I study a sword art...

Just out of curiosity, how often do you have these very common occurances resulting in death in the dojo where you train?

I want to make sure I stay away. I think I would have a hard time buying life insurance if they knew I coming to train with you guys.

[len mccoy]

I think if you review medical and forensic literature you will in fact find people do die or are incapcitate with one strike, one fall etc. People also take unbelievable beatings and live to talk about it. The amount of variabilty in how a given strike effects different people is huge. I doubt anyone, martial artist, boxer or street punk can consistently stop everyone with one punch. Even if you have limited access to scientific literature just look at the newspapers when someone dies in a fight. Then look at assualt cases people survived. Also look at the people in your daily life. At some point I'll bet you have seen someone trip and wind out in a hospital and someone else fall a pretty fair height and walk away unharmed. Everyday life is a dojo full of lessons if we are willing to learn. Respectfully,
Len McCoy

[Richard Scardina]

I think if you review medical and forensic literature you will in fact find people do die or are incapcitate with one strike, one fall etc. People also take unbelievable beatings and live to talk about it. The amount of variabilty in how a given strike effects different people is huge. I doubt anyone, martial artist, boxer or street punk can consistently stop everyone with one punch. Even if you have limited access to scientific literature just look at the newspapers when someone dies in a fight. Then look at assualt cases people survived. Also look at the people in your daily life. At some point I'll bet you have seen someone trip and wind out in a hospital and someone else fall a pretty fair height and walk away unharmed. Everyday life is a dojo full of lessons if we are willing to learn. Respectfully,
Len McCoy

I agree. Nice post. If the percentages of a one punch, one stop method which results in serious injury or death is low, then it maybe such idea to train in one, maybe surreal

[wmuromoto]

I would agree with Len's comment. Without a very large statistical data analysis, we are stuck with anecdotal comments. And anecdotally at least, I don't think we know. Some people have died with one blow, fall or strike. Others survived multiple stab, gunshot and "fatal" wounds.

My teacher once told me that his grandfather saw a sword fight in the late 1800s; members of the Shinsengumi ganged up on one swordsman and attacked him over and over again with swords. The lone swordsman was slashed and cut repeatedly but it took many, many cuts, and him fighting back for a very long time, before he eventually succumbed. Very much NOT like a typical one-cut-you-die type of Japanese chanbara movie. There was blood all over the place.

On the other hand, several years ago a TKD black belt was sentenced for manslaughter. After a verbal exchange, the black belt followed a teenage boy to the parking lot where the boy was trying to get away from the argument. The black belt ran up to him and did a jumping front kick to the boy's chest. The autopsy report noted that the kick stopped the boy's heart before he fell. When he fell unconscious, he hit his head on the pavement and the combined effect of the blow and the fall killed him.

--Wayne Muromoto

[Joseph Svinth]

In boxing, death is commonly caused by 1) cardiac conditions or b) the fall. The ground (and the ropes) are unforgiving.

On the other hand, there was an article in a recent Popular Mechanics, I think it was, about to survive a fall from an airplane flying at 30,000 feet, without using a parachute or oxygen.

Personally, I'm guessing your odds of surviving the Death Punch of Kung Fu Kid are higher the odds of your falling 30,000 feet, then walking away.

Your individual mileage may vary.

[wmuromoto]

There's a book....I think it's called the Survivor's Club...one part told of a woman passenger in an airplane that broke apart several thousand feet in the air. She fell that far, went unconscious, and woke up on the ground...alive. Yet some people die from falling from a standing position. Go figure.

In more mundane situations, the book says that your rate of survival goes up if you have a particular mind set that you WILL survive. You are prepared for a situation where preparation is possible, you keep your wits about you, and you have something to live for. It doesn't guarantee that you won't die, but it helps the odds. Like, "My wife is gonna kill me if I die now, so I better sure as heck live through this..."

Wayne Muromoto

[Ron Beaubien]

When I was living in the Detroit area and training with a dojo that was affiliated with the Japan Karate Association, there was a guy there who was said to have killed a person with a single punch.

If I remember correctly, he was a police officer and answering a call regarding a domestic dispute without a partner. When he approached the door, the husband suddenly burst through and the wife screamed that her husband had a weapon. There was apparently no time to draw his service revolver and the officer had to resort to his karate training. One reverse punch to the jaw was all it took. I don't know if it was the actual blow that killed the suspect or the fall.

Still, although it is possible, I think that a majority of modern day karate practitioners probably would not be able to kill with a single blow. More than just "mastering" the physical mechanics of the techniques, I believe that daily work on the makiwawa is a must. The fist, and particularly the wrist, really must be physically conditioned in order to deliver that kind of power.

I think Higaonna Morio's calloused hands would be a good example of what I am talking about:

http://tinyurl.com/yalpobn

The makiwara is a great tool, but unfortunately it seems that it is largely lacking in the practice of modern karate these days.

Best regards,

Ron Beaubien

[Richard Scardina]

So, I guess the odds are against it woth so many variables.

[Joseph Svinth]

I think it is more of a Murphy's Law. That is:

* If you really, really need for the punch to take him out, first time, it won't.

* If you had absolutely no intention of killing him, you just wanted to make him back up, then the odds are higher than you'd think that next thing you know, you're taking a trip to the Big House, on a Man2 conviction.

[Richard Scardina]

I think it is more of a Murphy's Law. That is:

* If you really, really need for the punch to take him out, first time, it won't.

* If you had absolutely no intention of killing him, you just wanted to make him back up, then the odds are higher than you'd think that next thing you know, you're taking a trip to the Big House, on a Man2 conviction.

I thought Murphy's law was; "anything that can go wrong will go wrong"

But, yeah, I agree with your post.