Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 16 to 21 of 21

Thread: "It's All About Timing"

  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,161
    Likes (received)
    333

    Default

    Well, yes, in a way. However it includes distance and the time it takes to traverse that distance as well as to draw a weapon, in this case from a security holster.

    Believe it or not, some police officers cannot smoothly draw from their security holsters, and when under the stress of a simple drill their skill goes out the window.

    This said, officers are often better able to understand that a subject standing within 10 yards or so can be a threat and they should address it appropriately for the situation - which includes having the weapon already out.

    The "drop," as it were.

    I am sure there were plenty of non "match" combats occurring in both the Old West and Japan's Feudal period that involved exactly these concepts - from what I have seen the entire art of (combative) Iai is based upon it.

    But I'll bet the cavemen were using the exact same idea as well.
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    273
    Likes (received)
    10

    Default

    If we are on the same page as to say that a firearm does not insure superior victory at all times, then we are in agreement.
    Richard Scardina

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    10
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Hmmm .... Sorry I arrived so late into this thread. I am new to this forum but have a bit of martial arts (42 years) and firearms (46 years) experience. I am also retired from one cop job (27+ years) and have begun another as the Chief of a small department.

    Anyway ... I have read through most of the replys here and there is a lot of good information. Dennis Tuller has been a mentor/instructor of mine. The comment about him not being happy about the '21 foot rule' is an understantment. Although it is a great 'point maker' it was never designed to be a 'rule'. Dennis has said that many times. The last article I remember was the 'rule' was going to be changed to the '32 foot rule'.

    At any rate ... Since most of the information we have is on Police gunfights, we have to make certian assumtions regarding what happens in civilian gunfights. Quite often a civilian may not have the luxury of knowing a situation is going bad. LEO's are sent into bad situations and have to have their head on a swivel and have to use their 'tactics' daily. Until we start keep records of civilian shooting incidents, this information will be sketchy at best.

    Great forum!

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,161
    Likes (received)
    333

    Default

    Gary

    Disregard my question in the other thread re: your background, thanks for adding your perspective. Once again, welcome!

    I would add that while LEOs often know they are going into bad situations, those tend to be the ones LE does well in.

    Its the routine traffic stops and unwanteds that can go bad and sometimes leave officers behind the curve response/tactics wise. The latter often result in very close quarters (hands on) gunfights.

    Let alone things like what happened at Lakewood.
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    10
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    I absolutely agree. As a LEO trainer for some time, my blood pressure still goes up about ten points when I see some of the stunts officers pull. The attitude of many oficers is that, "I am bulletproof" or "I can handle anything". We had one officer who was invloved in an incident where he was sent to check on a suspicious person. Instead of waiting for his back-up, he approached the subject even after the officer had seen him disappear around the back of the house as he pulled up.The officer - 6-4+, 250 lbs - began a cursory pat-down when the much smaller subject spun striking the officer in the nose breaking it and knocking him unconsious and stealing his gun. There was a sceond gun found at the rear of the house were the subject had come from. The same officer was not repremanded for ANYTHING and had previously been in one of my OFFICER SURVIVAL classes reading a newspaper! I could proably relate several more. Some people ...

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Naha, Okinawa
    Posts
    220
    Likes (received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hissho View Post
    I would add that while LEOs often know they are going into bad situations, those tend to be the ones LE does well in.

    Its the routine traffic stops and unwanteds that can go bad and sometimes leave officers behind the curve response/tactics wise. The latter often result in very close quarters (hands on) gunfights.
    This reminds me of a video of a traffic stop I recently read about.

    Coronerís jury rules officerís shooting of driver was justified
    A coronerís jury ruled Tuesday that Hamilton Police Officer Ross Jessop was justified in shooting Raymond Thane Davis to death after the Hamilton man opened fire during a late night traffic stop in January.

    It took the six-woman jury one hour to make its ruling following nearly five hours of testimony, which included a videotape that showed Davis pointing a pistol inches from Jessopís face and pulling the trigger.

    The click of the revolverís hammer hitting a previously fired round was audible on the tape.

    Davis fired a second time as the officer fell back and drew his own weapon.

    Jessop fired his pistol 14 times into Davisí vehicle as it sped away. One round hit the man in the back. Davis, 36, died on the scene.

    His .41 caliber revolver was recovered on the floorboard. Its hammer was cocked and ready to fire.

    Witnesses testified Tuesday Davisí taste for whiskey and a bad case of jealousy were to blame for the fatal confron-tation.
    Video
    Nullius in verba

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •