Karate and Korea

[Richard Scardina]

How much has Japan influenced Korean arts such as Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Yudo, to name a few?

[Joseph Svinth]

That's a troll, right?

[Richard Scardina]

I dont know what do you mean by that. however, i am opening a discussion with sincerity.

[yoj]

Influenced? They are all arts of Japanese origins.

[Josh Young]

Japan has influenced Korean arts a great deal. However Korea was a major dynasty for over a thousand years and had it's own martial arts that like many martial arts of Japan are developments of the Chinese martial arts.

Korea underwent major change in the early to middle 19th century, including being brutally separated by US military force just after the pacific theater ended. During this time Korean MA traditions (and other cultural aspects) were essentially outlawed and the Japanese culture became the most prominent Martial arts influence in Korea.

So now Korean martial arts are endangered species and many of what are considered Korean are borrowed arts to a degree. However the idea that any martial art belongs to a culture is a naive and somewhat ignorant concept.

Give credit where it is due but do not fail to realize that no culture lives in a vacuum and over thousands of years cultural exchange occurred in many areas and in many directions. Just look at the spread of Buddhism for an example, Zen is very much Japanese, and yet it is not wholly Japanese in origin nor is any culture or people limited in their ability to comprehend employ or benefit from it, martial arts is no different.

Avoid ethnocentric and racist generalizations and you will be wiser for it.

[Neil Yamamoto]

I'll post something of substance once Richard starts a thread BY CONTRIBUTING HIS OWN VIEWS FIRST.

[Trevor Johnson]

No kidding. I'd love to hear what experiences Richard's had that make him think this true. Otherwise, I think I'm going to wholeheartedly agree with Mr Svinth.

[Juan Perez]

I'll post something of substance once Richard starts a thread BY CONTRIBUTING HIS OWN VIEWS FIRST.

Ditto. And, I think this has been pointed out before.

[TommyK]

Greetings,

I have studied the history of Chi Do Kwan Korean Karate and I have found that the art I practised for over 23 years, simplistically, was developed and is descended from Japanese Karate. However, Japanese Karate is, in turn, derived from Okinawan and then even earlier in its history, descended from Chinese Martial Arts.

If the thread starter is not a troll, then I will devote numerous pages and sources on the influence of Toyoma sensei and Mabuni sensei on Chi Do Kwan Korean Karate, in addition to other Japanese influences on other Korean Kwans. (As many now know, Chi Do Kwan was one of the original kwans pressured to join other kwans to become Taekwondo by various and assorted Korean military and national poliitical factors.) I would suggest that anyone interested read "A Killing Art, The Untold History of Tae Kwon Do" by Alex Gillis, who really explores this vile period in terms of political coercion.

Lets see if this is a troll, or just a 'newbie' looking for the truth.

Regards,
TommyK
Tom Militello

[dsomers]

Here's an article on Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan that I put together a few years ago: http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/okinawa...sdarticle.html

[Joseph Svinth]

I second the recommendation on Alex Gillis's book. Very good stuff.

[Cady Goldfield]

Hm. Sounds like either a troll or a very naive person.
I trained in TKD for over 20 years, about 10 of them with a former personal student of Gen. Choi (Hong Hi), one of those reputed founders of "modern Taekwondo." It was a hush-hush fact that Gen. Choi had gotten his nidan in Shotokan Karate, and for those of us who had some Shotokan background, it was glaringly obvious in the forms, which were so transparently the Heiean and Tekki kata from Japan-via-Okinawa.

Even so, Korean national pride and the Confucian hierarchical tradition prevented TKD teachers from ever, ever openly admitting this, as in-your-face as it was.

[Trevor Johnson]

One of my teachers was invited to a TKD dojo, and amazed the students (and probably irritated the teacher) by walking down the dojo wall, which was filled with pictures of general choi, and showing the students that the early pictures had Japanese characters on general choi's belt, which eventually switched to korean characters meaning the same thing.

They'd never asked why his belt changed, apparently.

[Black and Blue]

Hm. Sounds like either a troll or a very naive person.
I trained in TKD for over 20 years, about 10 of them with a former personal student of Gen. Choi (Hong Hi), one of those reputed founders of "modern Taekwondo." It was a hush-hush fact that Gen. Choi had gotten his nidan in Shotokan Karate, and for those of us who had some Shotokan background, it was glaringly obvious in the forms, which were so transparently the Heiean and Tekki kata from Japan-via-Okinawa.

Even so, Korean national pride and the Confucian hierarchical tradition prevented TKD teachers from ever, ever openly admitting this, as in-your-face as it was.

My TKD instructor (for 17 years) knew many of the Japanese kata really well. He was a Major in the army during the Korean War and for some time after. It would not surprise me if he had ranking in karate also. He did have a 2nd dan in yudo/judo but did not cover it up, Interesting.. also his sign hanging outside for years said Korean Karate not TKD. I have a photo from an old magizine of Gen Choi and my teacher along with a few others I knew many years ago. Its tittled The Founders of Tae Kwon Do.

Phil Scudieri

[Richard Scardina]

Musul, Muye, Subak, Kagju, Hwrangdo, Tae Kyon, Choi, Jae, Won Gwang, Tang, Kara, whatever names of arts and people one is likely to reference, influences of one culture were always passed to another. Could one of the main problems within Asian martial arts is the issue of Asian "face"?