Different Nukitsuke in Seitei Mae and Shohatto

[brucew01]

Hi,

I want to ask if someone knows differences in Nukitsuke in Seitei Kata and MSR Koryu. I have been taught that in Seitei Kata "Mae" the kissaki stops in the midline of the body with the upper body turned 45 degrees to the left. I’ve been told that in Mae Nukitsuke is performed so that the opponent is only threatened (Seme) and not actually cut.

On the contrary, I learnt that in "Shohatto" (Muso Shinden Ryu) a real cut is made across the opponent's eyes. So the drawing of the sword is more to the left than in Seitei and the kissaki stops farther right with the upper body turned to the front.

The question I am asking myself is, how can I actually cut the opponent when he is too far away from me? According to the scenario Nukitsuke is performed when he touches his sword and still is in seiza, so I cannot reach him with my kissaki because he just has to lean back a bit to escape it.

Besides, maybe someone has an idea why in Seitei it's only a threat and in koryu a real cut since Seitei has been derived from koryu.

[r2-]

I'll leave the technical points to your teacher and/or more experienced forumites, but the official ZNKR iai manual describes the first action of mae as a cut to the opponent's temple (and, presumably, across the eyes/forehead and not just a slap on the side of the head), so there shouldn't be a difference in that regard.

If it's not in the book, it's open to interpretation, but the book's pretty clear on this one.

[Kim Taylor]

Your questions start from faulty information I'm afraid Bruce. In "seitei mae" (Zen Ken Ren iaido) the nuki tsuke is to the eyes / temple of the opponent and the strike finishes on the left side of his head (his left side).

I'd be interested to know where you got your information, was it from an instructor in the kendo federation?

Kim.

[Brian Owens]

...The question I am asking myself is, how can I actually cut the opponent when he is too far away from me? According to the scenario Nukitsuke is performed when he touches his sword and still is in seiza, so I cannot reach him with my kissaki because he just has to lean back a bit to escape it.

I wouldn't look too much into the "why and wherefore" of kata; they're training devices, and not meant to perfectly replicate reality.

Think for example of the fact that you and your opponent and both sitting in seiza, yet you both have katana inserted in your obi. That's a very unlikely scenario.

[ScottUK]

The question I am asking myself is, how can I actually cut the opponent when he is too far away from me? According to the scenario Nukitsuke is performed when he touches his sword and still is in seiza, so I cannot reach him with my kissaki because he just has to lean back a bit to escape it.

Is your nukitsuke not followed up with seme to forestall him and kirioroshi to end the engagement?

[Stefffen]

Hi,
The question I am asking myself is, how can I actually cut the opponent when he is too far away from me?

Engage? Get closer?