Katame waza in Koryu Jujutsu

[Hissho]

Nathan-

Okay, following you now - almost like this?



That being the case I would just pin his wrist to the ground and rotate my body while keeping pressure on the back of his tricep so that both arms are trapped, him facing you, you face down with your trauma plate on the back of his shoulder and his own body pinning the other arm. There are multiple neck restraints from this position, he can't hold onto you to keep you from disengaging, he can't bite you because his own arm is across his face, and he can't access weapons if you have enough pressure.

Here is BJJ black belt Marcio Feitosa setting up a choke, and doing what I mean:



You'd then either collapse the space, or get up and away.

This is also a follow on to the kesa gatame, if the guy tries to strike or gouge you with the free arm. I, too, don't like kesa gatame as a tactical osae waza, but if you end up there, you end up there.

If the guy gouges or strikes you, defend and take his wrist or sleeve. If he pushes you can actually go right into face down waki-gatame from here (Pascal Krieger just taught this at our dojo last month, though I missed it!).

Otherwise pull so that his own bicep goes across his face, and turn into him as above, you'll end up in the same position.

One of the greatest advantages of grappling is exactly in developing the "Art of the Transition," going with the flow of what the adversary does to trap him. The difference here is simply the end goal. The sportive versions involve either extracting arms or staying tied up to work in locks and chokes, whereas the tactical versions really only focus on his ability to be mobile, mount an effective attack, hold on/prevent you from disengaging, or access weapons. You can forestall many of these things all at the same time with many of these moves, which is why I often say that for real fighting where weapons and foul tactics are in play, the end goal is often found in the set up for a submission, but not the submission itself.

[Hissho]

Looking for some koryu jujutsu images for more illustrations:

Sekiguchi-ryu from Yotsume dojo.com and the Budokan video series:



This is the knee-to-elbow pin that I am talking about, and Judo teaches it, as does IIRC Sosuishi-ryu. Dunno if SR pushes the elbow with the knee or actually drops the knee on the elbow.

Real world in this configuration I will sometimes drop my hip closer to his or arm over his hips because some people roll out of this naturally.

Daito-ryu - Shouyoukan website daito-ryu.co.nz



Simlar knee pin - photo looks like it is closer to the shoulder. Personally I put the other foot on the ground, not the knee. On a mat, no big deal. On concrete, blacktop, what have you, it creates some issues.

Daito-ryu - I think? From Yamatoarts.com



This is a very, very common position when someone has gone down and somehow pulled free or been let go. This is not a pin but what I call "momentary control" that allows a strike, use of a weapon, or follow up to pin while preventing an immediate defense or turn into you. This has to be capitalized upon immediately. You can see me doing something similar here - on the off side - in a live evolution during a combatives conference:



If you want follow up control you drive the elbow/tricep into his face and put pressure on it. I will either use posture and connection with the arm to drive it, pin with the knee, or drop my chest onto the back of his arm, ending in a position like my previous post. For arrest purposes, there are things you can do to roll him over.

There are more out there, no time now.

[Nathan Scott]

Hey Kit,

Thanks for the research and comments. I'll try the pancaking thing from waki-gatame. The only thing I can imagine being troublesome is the fact that the elbow control comes from my upper triceps area close to the armpit. It would be a lot easier to transition if my torso wasn't so directly involved with the control. But I'll play with it and see how it goes.

Sekiguchi-ryu looks like a straight down version of ikkajo, found in both aikido and Daito-ryu. Good stuff. The Shoyokan website image looks like a pin I've used before too. I use the point of my knee instead of my upper shin, but basically the same. The last image from Tampa Bay looks like an arm bar pin from a jujinage throw in Daito-ryu. I think I've seen Kondo Sensei pinning someone similar to this. I can see how this could be used to buy enough time to transition out of waki-gatame. I'll play with this and see how easy it is to transition to.

The other stuff you tried to link doesn't appear to be visible.

Either way, good stuff. Thanks. These are better ideas than I came up with so far.

Regards,

[Nathan Scott]

You know, I think I see the problem now. I was using my my usual frame of reference, which is kime-waza transitions, to think of solutions for katame-waza transitions. That's why I was drawing a blank.

A torso-to-torso katame waza transition generally would require a torso-to-torso grappling solution. Kime-waza can be transitioned through joint lock transitions, and are far more useful for our purposes. Interesting...

I only have two techniques that I ever use that involve katame-waza. One is the aforementioned waki-gatame, and the other is what Daito-ryu Aikibudo calls "Gyaku-tasuki", which is a technique that involves circling the arm around the opponent's neck and close-side arm. Gyaku-tasuki is a choke out that often involves sitting on the ground in the spread legged judo position, but it can also be applied from standing or on one knee if done correctly. Not easy to transition from using kime-waza, but since the opponent enters into "sleepy time", a tactical transition is not as important.

I guess it's best to either become well versed in both methods of pinning, or, stick to what you know best.

Thanks,

[Hissho]

Gyaku-tasuki sounds like an arm-in guillotine? Any pics/vid?

Another takedown *might* be available there. You can see a version of it in the ISR Matrix. They do it off the "underhook and pike." You can see it at the far right on the first series of photos:

http://www.isrmatrix.org/index.php?p...ils&news_id=15

Not sure.

I have put a lot of time in rolling around in combative contexts versus sport. I do the latter as well to refine technique against resistance with skilled people that do MMA, Judo, BJJ, wrestle, etc.

Most of the time this stuff doesn't happen in the field. If it did, it would be a bad day. But it would be a bad day I am ready for based on the training I do.

The fact of the matter is, as you know, we are seeing more and more skilled grapplers, and more and more layman that at least have an "idea" of what to do based on watching MMA and doing their own backyard brawling. They used to do WWF, now they do "UFC," but MMA is real, which can cause some problems. I know cops that have almost been sankaku-jime'd by suspects, had suspects shoot in on them, pull guard, and have read multiple reports of fights between citizens ended with chokes and armbars, and literally even "tap outs." MMA is permeating our culture, and I think it is important for law enforcement to be able to deal with it.

It is my belief that the "secret weapon" available for those who put the time in is countering some of this combat sport gone bad with updated classical teachings that take weapons and control into account versus searching for submissions. There is certainly a crossover (namely in "ground and pound," though that is not what LE does....), but having a sense of the difference, and the transitions puts us ahead of the game.

[Kendoguy9]

Hi guys,

Belly up wakigatame is an interesting position to fall into. Wakigatame is present in Daito-ryu in the sankajo hanzahandachi set. I think the transition like Marcio Feitosa is doing might be a good way to transition from the wakigamtame to a more kimewaza position. It reminds me a lot of Daito-ryu karaminage pin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU-MpyeVtLg around the 1:26 mark). This works by putting the hand down on the ground and applying pressure to the elbow/triceps with their own crossed arm. You could apply the pressure to the elbow much the same way Marcio is using the gi and simply spin out of it using the hand on the elbow as your pivot point. Sometimes when the throw goes bad and they end up with their arms crossed but on their back we'll put our knee or foots under them and yank on the arms to roll them more on the front. The foot or knee there acts as a pivot point and stops them from just sliding on the ground like a prop.

Kit, I like the way you describe the transition from the belly down wakigamatme to a knee on elbow ikkyo pin. I would have tried to put my hand on the elbow but I think the idea of using the trauma plate is very good since it allows you to keep control of the hand with both of your own!

There is video of Gyakudatsuki here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIvdTJQRUU at the 5:08 mark. A key point to the Daito-ryu version is to use your own head as a brace against the back of their head. You can also pin the arm like in the Simple Wave Dojo picture. Again another position like the belly up wakigatame I guess.

This is a good thread. Thanks guys. Back to writing papers for class.

[Nathan Scott]

Hi guys,

Yeah, I hear what you're getting at Kit. And you're right. I've come across a number of clients who claim to have MMA experience. I haven't come up against it yet myself - at least not from anyone that displayed any noticeable level of skill. But it is definitely something worth being more familiar with and having counters prepared for. Shooting the legs is something I haven't seen any classical art defend against. At least not historically (I'm sure some current teachers of koryu jujutsu are updating their counter techniques).

I've thought about it before and have a few tactics. If I do end up in a grappling situation, I've got a minimal amount of exposure to the basics that I should fare o.k. I just need to change my mindset. Also, there are some reversal methods I picked up in aikido and other arts that most MMA don't seem to be up on from playing around with a few. In aikido, I categorize them into technical reversals (gyaku-waza) and internal reversals. The internal reversal is something that seems to naturally develop through self-preservation during strong joint lock attacks. In grappling, it allows me to resist locks and manipulations, which in turn buys me time to maneuver myself into a better position of advantage. Not as useful against "ground and pound", but one tool that has proven useful from traditional training.

FWIW, one of the main teachings in classical / traditional martial arts is various tactics and zanshin prior to making contact. This has helped me a lot in setting up situations in which an opponent does not have the opportunity to get the initiative on me. Such as not allowing an a-hole to square up with you, distraction techniques, etc.

"Gyaku-tasuki" (gyakudasuki) translates as "reverse sleeve tie". Many koryu arts use a tasuki (thin length of fabric) to tie back their kimono sleeves. The tie is crossed in the back, and vertical in the front on either side in front of the shoulders. If you were to put it on backwards, with the "X" in the front, you would have something similar to what this technique is. It is a great technique to know, and in modern times is really useful against a round-house punch. Slip your head under the strike and trap the opponent's attacking arm against their own head by locking your arms around their neck and arm (see video Chris posted). An atemi can be worked in while setting this up, and uke's balance can be broken backwards to provide for a stronger setup. About 8 seconds to lights out. Good if you are in tight with someone while standing.

Chris, get back to work you slacker!

[Hissho]

There is video of Gyakudatsuki here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIvdTJQRUU at the 5:08 mark. A key point to the Daito-ryu version is to use your own head as a brace against the back of their head. You can also pin the arm like in the Simple Wave Dojo picture. Again another position like the belly up wakigatame I guess.

This is a good thread. Thanks guys. Back to writing papers for class.

Ah, not what I was thinking at all - but very similar to a technique I've seen in Judo, BJJ, Shenwu and Arrestling! Good one!

Like the Kubihineri as well - thats how I finish kata gatame!


I think the main difference I see with aikido and koryu (Daito-ryu and otherwise) is that for "street" controls, I try not to kneel on the ground, as noted above. I don't want to spike my knee into the ground (it's told that Renzo Gracie broke his kneecap that way in a street fight), and don't like the flaying that comes from abrading them across concrete, or blacktop, or the damage from hard inside floors (stone or tile). Obviously not an issue in the days when floors were matted or packed earth.

Instead, as I like to put it "Make the Man your Mat."

Many of the techniques I see there look similar to different control positions I have used, but I am usually either kneeling on their "belly" (different places depending what he is doing), their shoulder, their neck, or their arms; it protects my knees from the ground, forces them to deal with my weight, and gives me instant feedback from their body as they move.

As far as as the comment re: pre-contact zanshin and tactics, absolutely. That is how most of them go, even some people that want to resist can be shut down pretty effectively when initiative is maintained like that. Its one of the reasons I think some kind of focus on those elements of traditional practice is needed within law enforcement circles, over the techniques.

I do think that over and above that we need "in extremis" tactics for sudden assault, ambush, suspect-has-the-drop type stuff. Dunno if DR has that, but one of the things that has always impressed me about the oldest of the classical close combat ryu (you see it in Takeuchi-ryu, Araki-ryu, Nagao-ryu, and some others) is kata where the teki has your back, is on top of you, there are two of them and already grabbing you, etc. and you fight your way out from there.

Seizing and maintaining initiative is ideal but not always what we get handed due to so many other factors in the field having nothing to do with technical skill. You simply cannot reproduce that in a dojo, but it is fascinating to me to see the efforts they made to address it in training.

[Nathan Scott]

Hey Kit,

Good comments. I think a lot of us in the field try to avoid putting our knees on the ground, mainly because of the laundry bill! There is definitely something to be said for using your body weight on the opponent through your knee. Once a certain level of control has been established, driving weight through the knee is a proven method, and a good time. However, placing a knee to early on a thrashing opponent can throw you off balance too, so in my opinion, there is also a time where having a knee on a stable surface (ground) can be preferable in maintaining balance and leverage. I've only gotten a hole in one pair of pants so far (but it was worth it)...

Daito-ryu is one of the best examples of an art that includes ambushes and multiple opponents. Ushirodori are specifically intended to teach automatic reaction to attacks from behind, and a development of a "sixth sense". Aikido and DR both have multiple opponent attacks from different direction training, as well as multiple opponent attacks at the same time (held from two or more opponents at the same time). There are also situations where you have pinned someone in a one hand or free hand pin, taken a position of zanshin, and one or more opponent's attack you while you maintain the pin on the first opponent - usually from behind. It's all good training.

BTW, all your pics came through on your previous post. Good stuff. Thanks for the feedback.

Off to work

[Hissho]

Sure, I think a lot of it is definitely situational.

Unfortunately I have yet to see any aikido or DR demo of multiples that looked even halfway realistic. Same with much in the koryu. Maybe its a factor of "demonstration kata" or a break in the tradition of actually using it - either for competition/challenges or real fighting.

Still, I've learned to see a lot more in stuff that previously I would have dismissed. You just have to look past the practitioner demonstrating sometimes to see the goods.

Be Safe.

[Kendoguy9]

I think that many things in koryu have to be pulled out of the kata to be made useful. It is also very time consuming. I think it involves a very large commitment by the student to really study and internalize the skill set because no one is going to just give it to you (even if they do give you the answers it won't help if you don't put the sweat in). A lot like a lot of the Chinese internal stuff. The initial investment doesn't reap the rewards very fast and in many cases it never does.

Kito-ryu (not just judoka doing Koshiki no kata) has a choke something like gyakudatsuki as seen here at the 3:52 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wml1vC4fgIE

The elbow attack to the suigetsu in kubihineri hurts like crazy. The whole pin forms a diaphram choke. Not a good thing if you just ate or drank a lot of water!

Tried out the trauma plate technique the other morning in class. Works really well. I would have gone hand to elbow before but I like your version better Kit! I'll remember that one.

Done with school 'til fall. Hope to see some more good conversations here so I can join in!

[Hissho]

I think that many things in koryu have to be pulled out of the kata to be made useful. It is also very time consuming. I think it involves a very large commitment by the student to really study and internalize the skill set because no one is going to just give it to you (even if they do give you the answers it won't help if you don't put the sweat in). A lot like a lot of the Chinese internal stuff. The initial investment doesn't reap the rewards very fast and in many cases it never does.

Yep, and the same is true of antagonistic work.

Attributes - internal or external - are one wheel of the cart in terms of the total package. Technical skill, then skill-at-fighting as well, and mindset.

There can be a tendency to put all our eggs in one basket:

Some are attribute driven: "if only I was stronger (bigger!), more flexible, faster, or

more connected, had more jing, more "aiki" (whatever that means nowadays) etc. then I would be a better fighter."


Some are skill driven: "if I just spend more time working on my takedowns, if I just master the kata, if I just "roll live" a lot more, I will be a better fighter."

Some mindset "I know I'll be okay - I HAVE THE WILL TO WIN!"



The truth is to achieve higher levels of performance you need balance.

To have the greatest capability, you have to diversify - attributes in support of fighting skills. Attribute training that supports skill development or skill refinement and develops it to a higher level.

The "kata vs. freestyle," the "strength vs. skill" and the "internal vs. external" all miss the point if actual fighting performance is the measure. They are ALL true, and how you balance your training - or fail to - will be revealed when you test yourself in those varied realms, and get tested in the field.

When a challenge gets presented, our time-in ratios in the above become more important as the situation dictates: the encounter may be one which demands more attributes, more technical skill, or more purely combative skill, or a greater integration of each.

If the other guy has the edge where we are lacking, we lose unless our tactics are better: the "internal" guys or the athletic, external physical specimens that can't get out of simple control holds and exhaust their attributes in the very act of using them...because they don't know the technical means to escape.

The highly skilled kata performers, when faced with strength and resistance that can't pull off their moves because their skill was never put to that test and can't adjust at the speed the situation demands...

The "rollers" who only ever worked their few "go to" moves and when met with an opponent who is so overwhelmingly powerful - or much better integrated - can't hang and can't seem to adapt to this new opponent...

The combinations are endless and situationally dependent. We have to pick where to spend our time, and always take the risk of spending too much or too little in any particular area.

Its the main reason that the art of fighting without fighting is the acme of skill!

[Kendoguy9]

"The highly skilled kata performers, when faced with strength and resistance that can't pull off their moves"

One of the guys that trains with me started about 6 months ago. He asked to come watch class. It was just my regular workout partner and I that day so we went through the basic kata so the guy knows what we do and what it looks like. After we were done the kata we did some of the resistance training we do at the end of class. It wasn't fighting each other full out or free rolling but we were fighting the techniques. At times we couldn't pull it off against each other and struggled a bit. We like to do this because it tests the limit of what we can do and how well it works against someone who knows what's happening and doesn't want it to. The guy joined up with us. He later told me that that is what made him interested. It was our unwillingness to just let someone have the technique that sparked his interest. He had trained in a typical aikido dojo for a few months and he was told over and over again to, "not resist so much it was just training, just kata, just whatever." The fact that we encourge him to resist BS techniques and often show him how to resist even better than before drew him in. Kata is a dead dance without testing it now and again. Does it do what it says it does? If not why? Is it a bad kata or is it one of the three components you mentioned? Maybe I'm just trusting but I feel like some of these very old kata must have had some value or they never would have been passed on so it isn't bad kata.

"The 'rollers' who only ever worked their few 'go to' moves"

I remember when I did judo I was told that the best judoka really only had three or four throws that they did well. They might know the other throws for tests and for teaching people but they only really worked their big three or four. Based on this advice I picked my three that I did well and had a good win % with. Hizagaruma, Tomoenage and Haraigoshi.I might have a sweep or two and maybe an osotogari once in a while for good measure. I won a bunch of medals and crap. I feel my judo didn't really become any good though (not that it was that good really) until I learned the Nage-no-kata. Learning that lit a bunch of lightbulbs in my head!

I've never thought of the balance between attributes, skills and mind set but I think for a very long time I've been playing with that balance without knowing it really.

"We have to pick where to spend our time, and always take the risk of spending too much or too little in any particular area."

I think this can be dangerous to risk spending too much time on one area and none of the others. However that is where you can rely on the experience of others. Less experienced guys like me can rely on guys like you and Nathan to help guide us to what we need and how much of it. Too much of a good thing...

[Hissho]

Massive thread drift, but it ties in to the topic in the most important ways:

Kata

Is it bad "kata" really? Maybe in some cases when a succession of very poorly skilled/misinformed people has grafted their understanding onto it.

Probably more often poor performance, or mis-understanding, or perhaps even intentionally misleading instruction.

As well, knowledge can be transmitted, skill cannot. The entire "internal" idea is based specifically on these things. Everybody gets, or gets to see, the same kata - but different people see different things differently....some get taught different things and critiqued because the "vessel" is ready or they are "getting it," and some never do and the teacher tells them they are doing just fine...

Internal/external is a later term, and a poor one due to its varied and confused meanings. I wonder if a more accurate term would be "esoteric/exoteric." Historically, culturally, and in terms of transmission I think that is exactly the case.

Training is cyclical as well - some time must be spent in simply learning and refining technical movement, no resistance, etc. But you really learn it by then feeling what others are doing to you (in BJJ, for example, it takes a while to get the difference between "strength" and "pressure." Some very fit and very strong people can't generate the same pressure that some smaller, less powerful people can, they can't vary it, fill and empty holes, etc.), and then wiring it in when other people - especially people of equal or greater skill - are countering and attempting to overcome what you are doing.

It is a "training continuum" that we constantly cycle through, and which we are never done with.

I watched a master swordsman once, an elderly man that had difficulty walking, during breaks in training - get up and practice. Very subtle stuff, the definition of "motion in stillness".... and with the most basic of cuts.


Judo:

Yes, and competitively and combatively I think that is the case. For my CQC students we have a very small set of technical skills that we work for ground, for example, and we change the goal of the ground fight completely. I notice two things:

The people that actually grapple at our dojo do much better and flow more effectively within the smaller subsection of tactics we do in CQC than people who just do CQC. The former have a greater command of the language, so to speak, and so even with limited words are able to put together better sentences....

but....

...some of them have to be reminded from time to time that the goal is different and that they need to extricate and disengage versus staying wrapped up with a guy, hunting submissions, while the guy is ground and pounding them, or weapons are involved. So they have to be reminded that they are creating haiku, not sonnets.


Getting a little artsy here, but isn't that what screwed up the fighting arts to begin with??

[Nathan Scott]

Hi guys,

I generally agree with what you're saying, but would like to offer (perhaps?) a slightly different perspective:

Unfortunately I have yet to see any aikido or DR demo of multiples that looked even halfway realistic. Same with much in the koryu.

I'm not sure what you would qualify as "realistic". I've seen plenty of kata in DR and koryu that are fricken awesome, but are performed at varying levels of skill. Personally, I try to look past the skill level and analyze the purpose of the kata in order to better understand what the art has to offer. The fact is, very few people in any of the traditional / classical arts are putting the amount of effort into their studies that would be necessary to make them skilled, or develop the necessary body skills. Oh well. It doesn't dissuade me from the art itself.

As you know, Japanese kata only superficially represent a "combative simulation". They are nothing more and nothing less than teaching tools. That's it. The kata are based on the elements of combative situations in order to inform the exponent of the context of the skills. But the kata are not supposed to be "realistic". Maybe we are just dancing around choices in term definition. I suspect you are well aware of this.

In a real situation, a trained exponent should "react appropriately" (ie: spontaneously, without forethought). Reflection on the event should prove that various bits and pieces of the kata - or at least the principles - were properly adapted to the situation. THAT is what the art actually looks like (ever adapting) - not the kata. I make it a point to debrief my real-life conflicts in my dojo so the students can see how the teachings of various kata manifested itself. My reactions are not necessarily the only interpretation, but it does provide a window into the "real art" for perspective.

The truth is to achieve higher levels of performance you need balance.

I agree, but I think you are pushing towards obtaining skills in all aspects of what is seen in popular martial arts, rather than balancing the focus of one's training within a given art. I can't say that training in the various popular methods out there is the wrong idea, but what I do see is a basic division between modern martial arts (MMA / freestyle) and traditional/classical martial arts (kata). One of the biggest problems I see with most students studying TMA is that they are not truly following the art they are studying. They are impatient, and mixing in things from judo, Chinese martial arts, or MMA. The TMA were/are complete fighting systems, though not "comprehensive" in all cases. These arts require a specific mindset and tactical approach because, again, they are complete systems. When students who are not fully initiated start drawing from other sources in order to speed up their development, most times, they gloss over a bunch of important teachings that were in the TMA, making it less effective to the exponent. In other words, it is critical that one fully submit to the entire TMA they are studying and reach a certain level before considering cross training. Keep in mind that classical / traditional arts were once extremely effective and offered the exponent a complete fighting system. There is no reason they cannot still provide the same thing.

That being said, there is more than one way to the top of the mountain. The traditional Japanese is approach is mostly kata repetition/research combined with realistic / real-life testing. Many other cultures, and especially in the West, instead embraced free-sparring early on. TMA teach to focus on tactically setting up your opponent before making contact, then employing a decisive "one cut / one kill" philosophy to the conflict. The West emphasizes vying for opportunities and creating openings through "jabs and feints".

They are two different approaches to developing combative skills, and both (IMO) are equally valid if trained and tested correctly. Most are not able to bounce back and forth between both approaches and still benefit to the fullest from either approach, from my experience.

As well, knowledge can be transmitted, skill cannot.

I almost want to disagree, but I won't, because this is basically correct. However, in TMA, a student who trains in orthodox kata correctly and repeatedly for long enough will develop certain body skills and understanding of the methods - ie: "skill". But in reality, you do tend to see more MMA with skills than you do traditional exponents of kata. I view this as a short coming in the current instruction and/or study of TMA, rather than an indication that TMA is outdated and useless. In most cases in traditionally taught TMA, there is very little verbal instruction. The student naturally reaches certain inspirations during the thoughtful study of the kata. The kata teaches the skills, and if they are performed correctly enough times, should in turn produce a skilled exponent.

In any event, even in the classical and TMA there has been a precedence of the arts to constantly make themselves aware of what other arts and methods are being used, and how to reverse them if encountered - using the structure of the art they are studying. This of course just makes sense. The reason I was tripping over the transition on this katame-waza, as I now realize, is that I was using a method that was outside the scope of how my art approaches fighting. That was my fault, and caused me to ask outside my group for insights on how to fix the problem. Good to know how to reverse such methods, but not good to "fight using someone else's fighting method".

Kit - I'll get to your PM soon. Sorry.

Chris - funny, I used to use tomoenage a lot too. I was told it was an exotic and unusual throw to use for randori, but I found that nobody expected it, so it worked very well! BTW, don't sell yourself short there buddy. I saw you and Brian demonstrating on Kondo Sensei's new DVD!

FWIW,