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Thread: "Westernized jujutsu"

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    This subject came up in another thread - Panta rhei: koryu and evolution - started by Robert Reinberger.
    He used the term "westernized jujutsu" , a subject in which I am very interested.

    In my experience some people, mostly with experience in koryu have a tendency to look down upon so-called "westernized jujutsu". Much to the chagrin of practitioners of the said art.

    It might be possible that "westernized jujutsu" suffers from a certain lack of identity when confronted or compared to koryu jujutsu.
    This might be an explanation for the interest in the arts of their origin.

    I am very much interested in the opinion of people who have experience with the above mentioned arts on this subject.

    Just to make myself clear on this point I am not in favor of one of them (koryu jujutsu or "westernized jujutsu")
    and I rate them, although they are different arts, as equal.


    Regards,

    Johan Smits

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    Johan,

    I think the source of the problem stems from some of the practicioners of 'modern jujutsu' who try and claim koryu status. There is nothing wrong with their style per se, but their attitude and self promotion are the point of contention.

    That said there are some styles that I have seen that are terrible and are purely cashing in on the grappling boom at present and the jujutsu boom of some years ago.

    Here's an analogy that I like:

    You have a can of paint (in this case jujutsu) it is good paint, the perfect color. Over a period of time conditions vary, you decide to experiment and mix little bits of other colors into your can subtly changing the color. As you mature you decide that your paint needs to be passed on, you choose someone and give him the paint can. He too experiments and adds different colors.

    Over a period of time the can of paint passes through many hands and many other colors get added, the current color does not match the original color much any more, it's still good paint but it's not the same.

    Someone comes along who never saw the original paint, he only has heard stories. Today people value the old things more, so he decides that he wants to return to the old paint.

    It is impossible to remove the colors that have been mixed in over the years, they now form part of the paint, you can try to add larger quantities of various colours to try and override the effects of the added colors. You may get something that resembles the original color. But it is still not the original paint.

    This is what some people have tried to do, they are taking the new paint, be it judo, aikido, karate or what-ever and are trying to add other bits and arrive back at the original jujutsu. You cannot reverse engineer like that. There is nothing wrong with their system, but it is not jujutsu.

    If they were to acknowledge the process, then that is fine. Many people do do this, John Bluming is one example that springs to mind. But many try to hide behind names and traditions that are not valid, this is wrong.

    Most 'westernised jujutsu' systems are perfectly good martial arts as long as no one claims that they are traditional jujutsu. Some however are not, and unfortunately it is often those that recieve the coverage. They bring any bad feeling on themselves and lower the standard of fighting as a whole.

    Regards

    Neil
    Neil Hawkins
    "The one thing that must be learnt but
    cannot be taught is understanding"

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    Hi Neil,

    Thank you very much for your reply. I agree with you on some points. You give an accurate description of, in my view an important part of the problem.


    I don't think the source of the problem stems from practitioners of "modern Jujutsu". I think the source of the problem can be found in the lack of identity from which "westernized jujutsu" suffers.

    Please note I do not use the term "modern jujutsu".
    In my view there are (for this discussion) three forms of jujutsu: koryu jujutsu; westernized jujutsu; modern jujutsu. The last term at least for the sake of convenience can be used for jujutsu styles, founded after 1900 in Japan.

    Westernized jujutsu, has been in Europe for almost a century. The lack of identity from which is suffered comes from the fact that no complete system of jujutsu has been transferred to the West.

    The first teachers did teach koryu jujutsu for a part.
    Tenjin Shin'yo ryu; Yoshin ryu and Ryoi Shinto ryu were three systems which were taught.
    However these first teachers did not transmit the complete systems. What they taught was mainly, part of the syllabus of their ryu, for self-defense.
    They named it jujutsu and they graded their pupils who also used the name jujutsu.

    Now if those teachers taught an art to which they referred to as jujutsu, then it is jujutsu. Nothing wrong with that.

    The next problem is that westernized jujutsu was mainly a bag of tricks. No substantial theory, no history beyond one generation.
    Fairly soon after jujutsu had been "established" another system came to the West.

    Judo, well defined, a good theory based on a sound system and explained in a way westerners could understand. Let's not forget well organized and with a lot of publicity.


    After judo got started jujutsu almost disappeared in Europe.
    There were teachers, mostly the stubborn one's who did not organize, who kept teaching the "original jujutsu".

    Later with the karate/kungfu/grappling boom yes jujutsu lost even more of it's almost non-existing identity.
    Jujutsu teachers started calling jujutsu "an open system" sort of anything goes, put them in a gi, belt around, they start moving then it's jujutsu.

    You state " this is what some people do" that's right but it is as you say "some people".
    There are other people around, serious people who do care about an art they value.

    Now,we should learn something from history shouldn't we?

    In westernized jujutsu as I see it the next "big influence", like it or not, is going to be koryu jujutsu.

    For now,


    Regards,

    Johan

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    Default Westernised ?

    It's so rare I' m even remotely qualified to comment on something in e-budo that I couldn't let the opportunity slip by. !!

    As a student for 10 odd years and now an instructor in what is undoubtably and unashamedly both a modern and westernised style of Jiu Jitsu I can fully understand the fascination with the Koryu.

    I can't speak for the majority but for myself I primarily took up Jiu Jitusu because I wanted to a) be able to defend myself and b) do something 'exotic' !.

    As I've progressed and trained I'm convinced that the style I study does teach effective self defence skills (without going into all that that entails here). There are clearly unifying prinicples primarily based on physics and psychology which make the art sometimes brutally effective.

    However it does not have a 500 year old history and much of the traditions and more esotoric knowledge have been deliberately dropped..

    So I find myself know wondering do I want to teach self defence and effective control and fighting techniques for the next 25 - 30 years or do I want something more ?

    And it is that search for something more that has led me to search (so far without success) for an instructor in an older art. I'm not looking for combat effectiveness or self defence what I'm looking for is that mind set, the commitment, the culture if you will that sets anything with a long history apart from something more modern.

    These things are hard to describe in words so perhaps a metaphor might better serve... There are some incredible buildings being built today in many ways more efficient and impressive than anything seen before.. but to gaze upon the pyramids will always affect me more not because they are better buildings or even becuase they were built using 'primative' methods but because they have endured .. they have a history..

    Just my thoughts, treat them as you will

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    Hi Robert,

    lots of koryu do not have a history going back 500 years.Suppose we agree that every ryu founded before 1900 is koryu, we have a lot of them. Now let's say before 1800, in that case we have a lot less of them and some very famous koryu would loose their status as such.
    So it all is a bit relative.

    Please do not get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with Westernized jujutsu. Far from it!
    Thanks to the dedication to jujutsu of just a few people we are abel to learn a wonderful art.

    Now imagine the only thing these people had were the techniques as taught to them by their teachers. They had no connection to an age old "clan". They had only themselves and their techniques had better work or else they would be out of business very soon. They were tough people and worthy of our respect.

    It is just that throughout the years I noticed a lot of people, and often those with a background in koryu reacted a bit negative about westernized jujutsu and there is no reason for that.

    Koryu jujutsu will be in my opinion the next big influence on westernized jujutsu. This can go either way, good or bad. It is up to us (all of us!) as jujutsu practitioners how we are going to deal with that.

    Westernized jujutsu is a form of jujutsu, no matter what.
    No matter what people say, it has been here for almost a century and it is here to stay.

    The pyramids do not affect me more than modern buildings, they affect me in a different way.


    Your thoughts are much appreciated.

    Regards,

    Johan Smits

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    Default Watch out the Koryu are coming

    Johan

    I think you are right that the Koryu JuJitsu styles will become much more widely known in the near future and that this will have an affect on the more 'modern styles'.

    In some ways this will be a positive thing ,rediscovering roots and looking for some of the links to the past can be a wonderful thing.

    I think inevitably there will me a lot of brand new 'Kory'arts springing up and a fair number of fakes around though, but like every other fad these will pass and move onto the next big thing and the serious students will continue to train.

    Interesting discussion I hope others join us.

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    Dear Buyu,

    I regard this topic as a very interesting one, and it concerns a big part of what I'm doing. Johan, thank you for starting that thread. I hope you will excuse my late response, I haven't had the time to compose this post earlier.

    Originally posted by johan smits:
    In my view there are (for this discussion) three forms of jujutsu: koryu jujutsu; westernized jujutsu; modern jujutsu. The last term at least for the sake of convenience can be used for jujutsu styles, founded after 1900 in Japan.

    In another post, Johan wrote:
    Suppose we agree that every ryu founded before 1900 is koryu, .....
    Johan, I know it's problematic to apply our western concept of strict separation and categorizing at Japanese arts, but "for the sake of convenience" and general understanding I tend to use a more usual interpretation of "Koryu", that is, I use that expression for styles founded prior to the Meiji-restoration of 1867/68.

    Passing remark: I personally would find it more appropriate not only to distinguish between Koryu and Gendai Budo, but to make one more distinction at least. To describe it, and also "for the sake of convenience", I will now use expressions like that normally meant to categorize Nihonto from different periods (two of them I've never seen used in coherence with schools of "Japanese martial arts", so please excuse a possible "misuse") : That would make "Koryu" styles and schools founded prior to the Tokugawa Shogunate (for strictly practical purposes, I guess, and mostly if not always being what is called "Sogo Budo", meaning a "complete system", teaching several arts), something like "Shinryu" for those styles founded from the beginning of the Edo period until 1867/68 (that type may include other, more "philosophical" meanings, I assume, and may teach only one art), and finally "Shinshinryu" for every school founded after that time (which may include further aspects, like that of "western sports" and competition as a goal in itself, not as a means to add certain forms of training and a sort of "proof" of a school's effectiveness, and which more often than not teach only one art). Regarding the usual interpretation mentioned earlier, I think it would fit better to indicate a certain separation between "Kobudo" and "Gendai Budo". But that's only my "private concept" to see the matter.
    Originally posted by johan smits: The first teachers did teach koryu jujutsu for a part. Tenjin Shin'yo ryu; Yoshin ryu and Ryoi Shinto ryu were three systems which were taught.
    However these first teachers did not transmit the complete systems. What they taught was mainly, part of the syllabus of their ryu, for self-defense. They named it jujutsu and they graded their pupils who also used the name jujutsu. ... Fairly soon after jujutsu had been "established" another system came to the West. Judo, well defined, a good theory based on a sound system and explained in a way westerners could understand. Let's not forget well organized and with a lot of publicity.
    I think, Kano Shihan's Kodokan Judo was sometimes, and at some places even the first and main source for what came to the west. However, the distinction seems to not have been as strict at that times, and even Kodokan teachers often used Jiu-Jitsu, Ju-Jitsu or Ju-Jutsu to describe the art. Additionally, Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu may have had some impact (see the book "Complete Kano Jiu-Jitsu" by Hancock/Higashi).

    In Austria, at least, as can be seen in several early books on the subject, sometimes the practice of self-defense was called "Jiu-Jitsu", and the competitions were regarded as "Judo". An episode: In Germany, an editor of a newspaper wrote in a letter to one of the Jiu-Jitsu practitioners: "We can not publish anything on Jiu-Jitsu in our sports-section, as we don't regard Jiu-Jitsu as sport." In a historical sense, he was right, wasn't he? Other people, of course, regarded Jiu-Jitsu as self-defense and sport. However, a strict distinction between Judo and Jiu-Jitsu wasn't very widespread before WWII, in this part of the world, I guess.

    Different types of "westernized Jiu Jitsu":

    Firstly, you have the teachings that arrived in the west at the beginning of the last century, and what emerged from them in the past 100 years or so, heavily influenced by early Kodokan Judo. I would classify a lot of what is taught in Austria under the name of "Jiu Jitsu" into that category, as well as what is called "Brasilian Jiu Jitsu" today, for example. At a different level and degree of "westernization", even systems like Danzan Ryu may be included, if it isn't seen as a category on it's own, as well as offsprings like Wally Jay's "Small Circle Jujitsu". I don't know, if not even "traditional" westernized Jiu Jitsu would be a good term to describe that types, which I consider "legitimate" westernized Jiu Jitsu.

    Then there are systems, that were later developed, using parts and techniques from the systems mentioned above, and mixed with techniques from Kodokan Judo, Aikido and different Karate systems. What is taught in Germany under the name of "Ju-Jutsu" since the 1960's fits into that category to a wide extent, in my opinion. I think of those styles as still legitimate "westernized Jujutsu", and only have problems with the usage of the term "Ryu" by some of them.

    Number three are systems, founded by "teachers" of other (mostly P/K) arts, which included very few, and poorly executed Judo or Aikido techniques and jumped onto the Jiu Jitsu bandwagon during the 1990's. Sometimes not even the arts forming the bases of such systems are of (direct) Japanese origin. Herewith I have big problems, regarding legitimacy.

    The forth type are recently founded styles, with roots in Japanese Gendai Jujutsu. The future will tell, how they will develop. As an example I offer the "offsprings" of Hakko Ryu, as there are Hakko Denshin Ryu (founded by LaMonica Sensei and Garcia Sensei, both Menkyo Kaiden San Dai Kichu of Hakko Ryu), and Chi Ryu (founded by Bernaschewice Sensei, student of Garcia Sensei). While the use of "Ryu" by this styles may be seen as problematic by some, I think that systems are very close to their Japanese roots (especially Hakko Denshin Ryu, with the connection to Irie Sensei in Omiya); At the moment, I wouldn't call it "westernized Jujutsu", and mentioned it only for the sake of completeness. I don't know for sure if styles of this type, but with roots in Koryu Jujutsu, are in existence already.

    Collective designation vs. well defined, specific art:

    The term Jujutsu, to the best of my knowledge, came into existence as a collective designation for methodes of close combat during the Edo-period. Most schools used different terms to describe that part of their syllabus. That may be one of the problems with the "identity" of "westernized" Jujutsu, where the term is used to describe "one system", despite of the fact which kind of very different doctrines are taught under that term.

    In that historical coherence, the idea of an "open system, sort of anything goes", that Johan mentioned makes sense, IMHO. When you look at the wide variety of arts the original collective designation comprised, it's the most understandable concept, when the term is used to describe one ("open") system. If you want to describe a (your?) specific style within that "open system", it is neccessary to name it somehow, or nobody will know exactly, what you are talking about (but please refrain from calling it XXXX-Ryu, if possible).

    Within that dilemma we encounter both, a positive and a negative aspect of the whole concept, IMHO: the idea of an "open system" may provide one to develop a system of self-defense, and, to a lesser degree, a system for being successful at certain types of competitions, that is very well suited to one's personal conditions and strong points, and, of course, personal interpretations (like my own) of what "Budo" means are also easy to fit in. On the other hand, there are obvious dangers with everybody using the term at his own discretion.
    Originally posted by Neil Hawkins: This is what some people have tried to do, they are taking the new paint, be it judo, aikido, karate or what-ever and are trying to add other bits and arrive back at the original jujutsu. You cannot reverse engineer like that. There is nothing wrong with their ystem, but it is not jujutsu.
    Taking into account what I've said so far, and while I agree that the result of those efforts aren't "original" Jujutsu per se, I find it a little bit to strong to deny them the right to be called Jujutsu at all. I would, at most, do that regarding styles I mentioned as "number three systems" earlier.
    Originally posted by Rob Wallis: In some ways this will be a positive thing ,rediscovering roots and looking for some of the links to the past can be a wonderful thing.
    I agree, and while it isn't possible to "reverse engineer" to arrive at "classical" Jujutsu (I think the term "classical" describes better what is meant, than words like "traditional" or "original" would), I believe it is possible to "re-" introduce some (not so technical) aspects of Edo period Kobudo, may be like they were re-interpreted in "original" Japanese Gendai Budo (without the aspect of competition overwhelming everything else, that is) into westernized arts.

    In my case, the Jiu Jitsu which I encountered in 1970 was mainly sport-oriented. Thus, when I commenced training in Goju Ryu Karatedo two or three years later, it was the first time that I was exposed to a certain amount of Japanese Culture (and Budo) within an art, which I found interesting and which made me search, talk and read. Of course, as we all know very well, Karate is an own category, and when I started to train in Harada Sensei's Jigen Ryu, another level and other aspects, so far only "experienced" in an academical sense, occured. I try to include a lot of that into my practice of "westernized Jiu Jitsu" as well. Of course, that doesn't make it "classical" or even "modern" "Japanese" Jujutsu. But I think it can be categorized as "traditional (westernized) Jujutsu".

    So, I think, while "westernized Jiu Jitsu" in general has big advantages regarding variety and adaptability (think of "Ju" !!), today it mostly concerns self-defense and sport, not neccessarily in that order.

    The big shortcoming of most of these systems, as I see it, is the lack of the "Budo" - concept, including historical, cultural and mental aspects, similar to what happens recently to several Gendai Budo in Japan as well as abroad. Regarding that aspects, we can learn a lot from Koryu, especially if we connect that knowledge with the original teachings and ideas of the "founders" of arts like Judo, Aikido and even (Japanese) Karate. This may fill a big gap, IMHO, for people interested in more than only self-defence or sports.

    So, if you want to learn self-defence, some of the "westernized Jiu Jitsu" systems, as they are thaught today, may be good for you.

    If you want sport (including the western "Fit & Fun" philosophy), find other systems of "westernized Jiu Jitsu", or try something like Kendo, Judo or Karate, as practiced widely today.

    If you are interested in Budo (including more "eastern" type of philosophies) in general, perhaps Aikido, Kyudo or Iaido (the styles without competition) may fit your demand.

    If you want to experience all or most of the above, try several arts or find one of the few teachers, that try to cover most of that aspects with their teachings, be it in a ("Japanese") Gendai Budo or in a "westernized Jiu Jitsu" system.

    If you want Koryu Budo/Bujutsu of course, you only will be satisfied with joining a legitimate Koryu, however demanding that may be. There is no substitute for that.

    If you want to simply do something connected with what I call "pseudo-asiatic mumbo-jumbo", then you are really lucky: you will find lots of that, sold under every thinkable name.

    Regards,
    Robert
    Last edited by Robert Reinberger; 8th March 2001 at 13:28.

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    Hi Robert,

    Good of you to join us in this topic, we can do with a bit of feedback and you have given plenty.

    Here goes:

    About the date for koryu, yes you're right I just used the dates as an example but I believe 1867/68 is the date generally accepted.

    Dividing jujutsu in three forms is just to keep it easy (true you can distinguish into more forms but I wanted to keep that for later).

    Koryu jujutsu and modern Japanese jujutsu don't lack identity as westernized jujutsu does in my view, so both these forms can later on be used to come to a (more or less) definition of what jujutsu should be.
    But this may be a bit premature and is maybe something for later.

    About Kodokan judo being the first and in some places even the main source for what came to the West.
    Yes, I think you're right and also about the Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu. I believe THR had a lot of influence in Austria and Germany.
    You can see Kodokan Judo as formulated by Jigoro Kano as a "national form"and as such a standardized form of jujutsu. This makes sense because as you say the distinction between judo and jujutsu was not very strict before WWII.

    I am aware of Brazilian jujutsu and Danzan Ryu but kept them out of the discussion because they, at least as I see it, do not suffer from lack of identity.

    You mentioned the fact that I used the term "open system" and I did, however I feel I should explain that I am not in favor of this. It has been used a lot by people with the result that jujutsu in the West has become very polluted.

    Looking for my roots? No not really. I know where my roots are. Looking for a way to make westernized jujutsu stronger; better; more solid?

    Yes I guess so.

    Now I do not think westernized jujutsu can be turned into koryu jujutsu, nor should it be tried.


    Remember the paint, you can never get the original back and that's true.
    They try and presto as you mentioned "pseudo-asiatic mumbo jumbo". People calling me Sensei in the supermarket and asking me "Mastah shall aibeetimup?"

    What do you think would the term "authenticity" fit into this discussion about westernized jujutsu and it's identity?

    Best,

    Johan

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    Originally posted by johan smits:
    You mentioned the fact that I used the term "open system" and I did, however I feel I should explain that I am not in favor of this. It has been used a lot by people with the result that jujutsu in the West has become very polluted.
    Johan, would you give some examples of what should be excluded? I would be interested in your opinion here.
    Looking for my roots? No not really. I know where my roots are. Looking for a way to make westernized jujutsu stronger; better; more solid?

    Yes I guess so.
    Johan, I would also be interested in hearing about what you consider your roots in that coherence. Also, could you please explain what you mean with "stronger; better; more solid"? I think that sentence might be read in very different ways. And do you mean techniques (you wrote about "westernized jujutsu" per se)?
    What do you think would the term "authenticity" fit into this discussion about westernized jujutsu and it's identity?
    Perhaps, I don't know. When I use this word related to Jujutsu, I normally apply it to Japanese Jujutsu (as opposed to westernized styles), but maybe that's not a correct restriction.

    Regards,
    Robert

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    Robert

    I have no problem with people calling a style jujutsu, if it has strong roots in traditional Japanese styles. However there are many styles out there that have no links to any form of jujutsu, teaching a combination of karate and grappling. These, I don't think should use the word jujutsu.

    I try and steer away from the use of the word 'koryu', I prefer traditional jujutsu and modern jujutsu. Traditional refers to all Japanese based styles modelled on older ryu, regardless of their actual age. Modern jujutsu are the ones that don't have direct links to Japan, but still emulate the methods of the older schools.

    The reasons for my distinction, are primarily twofold. First, it is the nature of combative engagements to change over time, fighting styles change, weapons improve or become more readily available and so on. Jujutsu styles should evolve and adapt to encompass these changes. They should not lose sight of the core principles of the style, but techniques must be added to meet the changing circumstances.

    This evolution is sometimes frowned upon by 'koryu purists', who believe that any changes detract from the original form.

    The second major reason for my distinction is that many of the newer styles of jujutsu have very strong ties to old styles. Wally Jay is one example, his style is a modern one and a western one, he originally studied Danzan Ryu, which is also a chronologically new style. But Small Circle has much in common with many much older styles and to compare it with some of the other styles out there does it a great disservice. I would call it traditional, because that is the way it was developed and taught.

    But when it comes down to it, these labels are all subjective. I don't like to generalise (though I seem to do it a lot here ), I prefer to judge each style I see on its merits, and its students. As my grandmother used to say, "the truth is in the pudding."

    Regards

    Neil
    Neil Hawkins
    "The one thing that must be learnt but
    cannot be taught is understanding"

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    Hi Robert,

    I guess it is getting a little bit more difficult from here on.

    In a very strict sense I think westernized jujutsu should refrain from influences which do not have a certain Japanese heritage and it should also keep away from systems (these maybe Japanese) which do not share similar motion patterns.
    For example: Balisong knife techniques; Win chun straight punches, escrima stickfighting or Goju ryu karate techniques, etc. Do not belong to westernized jujutsu. There is nothing wrong with those systems, far from it!
    They just don't belong to (westernized) jujutsu. They should not be a part of it.
    Off course you can (and even must) experiment how jujutsu works with/against these styles that's a different matter. Jujutsu techniques against bicycle-chains and baseballbats, that is realistic so give it a try but don't make it part of the curriculum.
    Western boxing, should we experiment with it? Oh yes absolutely, should it be a part of westernized jujutsu? Belong to the jujutsucurriculum? I don't think so, a totaly different theory, different way of moving, does it fit into the system without disrupting some essentials which belong to the system? In my opinion not.

    Looking for my roots? I should have explained more clearly. Off course the roots of westernized jujutsu are to be found in koryu jujutsu. What I mean is that I am not trying to change westernized jujutsu into koryu jujutsu. They are two separate systems (you can't see koryu jujutsu as one system I know but for the sake of convenience), and that is ok. It is even good, we should not try to become koryu that would be impossible and meaningless.

    With stronger; better; more solid I mean we should guard the curriculum of westernized jujutsu more carefully and make sure that the changes which are going to come to westernized jujutsu have a background in Japanese jujutsu and not in other (in themselves sound) systems.

    It this case it is a bit strange to say but "foreign" influences (non-Japanese/ non-jujutsu) should not become part of the core of westernized jujutsu.

    Can koryu jujutsu have a beneficial influence on westernized jujutsu? Yes, in my opinion it can.

    Your remark about authenticity is right on the spot!

    To strengthen the identity (or give it a new; more recognizable identity) of westernized jujutsu we should look for authenticity. That's to be found in koryu jujutsu and, as you call it, gendai jujutsu (modern Japanese jujutsu).
    The next question I guess is what are the options to achieve this?

    Regards,

    Johan

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    Guys,

    This is an interesting discussion on a difficult and controversal subject. My sensei, Takamura Yukiyoshi was the subject of a fascinating interview concerning this. I think you would enjoy it very much. It is very thought provoking. You can access it at:

    http://www.aikidojournal.com/article...hiTakamura.asp

  13. #13
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    Hello Mr. Threadgill,

    Thank you for your contribution. I have read the interview with Takamura Sensei. I think that Takamura Sensei gives a perfect example of how jujutsu (koryu jujutsu) can adapt to changing circumstances. Keeping a style, school alive in a different time and age. He also gives us an example by showing us how a true master can be honest. In my opinion your Sensei was a truly remarkable man.

    I guess you are eminently qualified to give us examples of how a traditional jujutsu school has coped with a changing time and environment.
    I am not sure though if I can ask you because I am not aware of the policy of your Ryu concerning sharing information with people outside the school.

    I have quite a few questions I would like to ask you on the subject of changes within Takamura Sensei's school.

    Can you let me know if that's ok?

    If it is ok it would be handy to have a general outline of the Ryu, much as Meik Skoss gives from the Tenjin Shinyo Ryu on page 132 of Koryu Bujutsu, classical warrior traditions of Japan.
    If it's not possible, it cannot be helped and it's our loss.

    Best Regards,

    Johan Smits

  14. #14
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    Hello Neil,

    You wrote:

    "Jujutsu styles should evolve and adapt to encompass these changes. They should not lose sight of the core principles of the style, but techniques must be added to meet the changing circumstances."

    This is, I think, a most important point in the discussion.

    Techniques should be adapted, yes. Left out (no longer practised) maybe. Techniques should be added, I don't know.
    Could you give some examples?

    Best,

    Johan

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    Mr Smits,

    Generally I can discuss the topic you are curious about without many limitations, however often it is quite difficult for me to accurately explain this topic in words that do it justice.

    I would be happy to answer any questions I can. If the questions are off limits, I'll say so. If I don't know the answer I won't B.S. you... I'll say "I Don't know." If the question is very complex please be patient in that it may take me some time to formulate an articulate answer.

    Respectfully,

    Toby Threadgill

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