A small community?

[Patric]

I'm getting the sense that the jo community is pretty small. It seems basically split between the koryu Shinto Muso Ryu and the gendai Aiki-jo folks. Is this an accurate observation?
There doesn't seem to be a lot of posts. My guess is that Dave, Diane, Meik, and Phil don't really need this forum to chat. LOL <poke> I mean, really, how about some fodder for us lurkers? It's hard to be voyeristic if you don't provide some material. <smiles>

Patric Peacock

[Harold James]

Actually the "jo" is a pretty common weapon, and many schools have kata for its use.

Currently, though, as far as I know, only SMR uses it as a main weapon. The "jo" used in the Muhi Muteki-ryu is actually quite long and is more like a "bo" than a "jo" although the school is called "jojutsu"

I have seen a demo tape (from the Budokan series I think) showing the Suio-ryu's jo wich is very nice. The takenouchi-ryu uses several different lengths of sticks with the idea that a longer weapon has been broken. There are others as well. I believe there is a picture on Mr. Relnick's site (or some where...) of Mr. Skoss and Mr. Lowery doing jo from the Yagyu shinkage-ryu.

I guess there are no e-budo posters or lurkers (?) out there who want to post about other system's use of the stick as weapon perhaps because the majority of those out there (though a small community) are SMR and Aikido people.

This forum is called "jo" but I don't see why anyone with information about any koryu schools that use the "bo" or the spear or other wooden impact weapons for that matter, shouldn't post here as there isn't another forum for these weapons in the Koryu section.

I agree with Mr. Peacock that this forum could be a bit more lively.

I have a question that perhaps Mr. or Mrs. Skoss could address. I have heard that the word "jo" (maybe the same kanji- ?ñ ) a long time ago was used as a reference to a certain length, like "shaku" and denoted a pretty long length. Is this really the case?

Thank you

[RDeppe]

Not that I am an authority on the subject, but yeah the SMR crowd isn't big. I think the other reason you don't see a lot of discussion is that the SMR training method doesn't really encourage it. As a student you rely heavily on your teacher for answers and he/she gives them when you are ready or after you figured it out yourself (and even then it's probably not a direct confirmation). Which is the way it's suppose to be (I think).

That said, I would love to be able to find detailed info (or any info) on other Jo styles/traditions available on the web, etc. What I'm getting at here is that I have seen one very short video on an old Bo art that looked a lot like SMR. It would be great to have a bigger historical perspective.

Can anyone help out?--Thanks.

[Meik Skoss]

Off the top of my head, there are several koryu that use a weapon they call "jo" in their curricula: Tendo-ryu, Shinto Muso-ryu, Muhi Muteki-ryu, Tatsumi-ryu, Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, Chikubujima-ryu, and Hontai Yoshin-ryu (I think they refer to it as a hanbo, however). Ryu that use bo include: Yagyu Shingan-ryu, Toda-ha Buko-ryu, Takenouchi-ryu, Katori Shinto-ryu, Chikubujima-ryu, and Muhen-ryu. I may be missing a couple (it's been a very long day). Other than that, one needs to go to Japan to better understand what these ryu are like.

Yes, "jo" does refer to a unit of length. The character is the right half of the one for "tsue" (branch, stick), minus the radical for wood. Unfortunately, I don't have my J-E dictionary handy so I can't give you an equivalent with either customary or metric units.

Hope this helps.

[Chuck Clark]

Message deleted.

[Harold James]

Originally posted by RDeppe


That said, I would love to be able to find detailed info (or any info) on other Jo styles/traditions available on the web, etc.

Mr. RDeppe:

The majority of good information is only available in Japanese. There isn't a lot available in English, there is Koryu.com and a few other places but just a whole lot more of it in Japanese. If you are interested in good Japanese language sources, I would recommend the Nihon Budokan's new book just released, called "Nihon Kobudo" (If I remember correctly- my copy is at home.) This book was just recently released (late last year?) and is a compilation of articles that had been serialized in a magazine. It's hard bound with a dust jacket. I have seen it advertised through "The Hiden", and perhaps more information can be found on the Budokan's web page. The articles are well put together and very informative. Lots of pictures.

The other book I would recommend is called the "Nihon Kobudo Soran" (Survey of Japanese Kobudo) and was put out by the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai (again my memory might be faulty). This is a general overview of several Ryu and divided into catagories. I have seen this book in many of the Kinokuniya book stores and perhaps it can be ordered on-line through the Japanese language version of Amazon.com. This book is softbound and has very few pictures but does give a good (but short) introduction to several schools. The discriptions are usually very short, but it does cover many schools.

Both of these books are very topical, but will inform you about other schools besides SMR that include a "jo" in thier ciriculum, as well are valuable just for the other information they include.

Thebrutto and Robert make some good points about asking your teacher first BUT, books like the one's I have mentioned above are available to the general public and are usually written by Ryu-members (in the case of the Soran) or put out by the Budokan. The level of information in these publications is like I said, topical and usually does not devulge the level of information that tends to be kept within each school, where it belongs since it is the property of each Ryu. Nonetheless, these books are very informative and while the Japanese langauge aspect of it might be challenging, here is a chance to begin a study of the Japanese language. (The life long study... at least at the pace I seem to learn the language). It's never too late or too early to start!

I believe Mr. Skoss pointed out in an essay written a long time ago, the value once of learning to speak and read Japanese. The more one understands of the Japanese language the better (I say better not 100%) one can grasp the nuances of the culture that Koryu can not be divorced from.

That is, if by "etc" and "or any info" you meant books too (sorry about the soap boxing there... I just got carried away).

[Chuck Clark]

By the way, a dentist taught me some years back that the best treatment dosage is a mixture of Advil and Tylenol Extra Strength. Just a note though, most of the pain we experience in our dojo is muscle fatigue from getting up after ukemi.

[Jack B]

There are about a half-dozen groups in the US that do Jo descended from SMR. Some are koryu and some are open, modern forms. These groups have varying numbers, but I would estimate the SMR and Seitei population at several hundred altogether.

In no particular order:

JODO ORGANIZATIONS

International Jodo Federation (IJF) - koryu, tending towards the Kyushu style, Nishioka Shihan, US head Phil Relnick Menkyo Kaiden.

Nihon Jodokai - koryu, Tokyo style, Kaminoda Shihan, US head Rick Polland Shomokuroku.

Shindo Muso Ryu Shinkai - Matsui Shihan, US affiliates unknown if any.


KENDO/IAIDO ORGANIZATIONS

Canadian Kendo Federation (CKF) - Seitei, ZNKR affiliate (Namitome 8d Hanshi), US head Kim Taylor.

Japanese Sword Society (JSS), New York - Seitei, ZNKR-affiliate (Matsumura 8d Kyoshi).

Jikishinkai - Seitei, US head M. Shimabukuro.


AIKIDO/KARATE ORGANIZATIONS

Fugakukai - Seitei, Miyake Tsunako Shihan, US head Karl Geis.

International Aikido Alliance, Seitei, US head L.F. Wilkinson.

Shudokai - Seitei "Shiokawa-ha SMR", Hoshu Shiokawa Shihan, US head M. Sakimukai 7d Menkyo.


There are almost certainly others. My apologies for any out-of-date or incorrect information.

[MichaelRogers]

The New Nelson lists the kanji for Jou (New Nelson number 5), without the Ki radical, as "10 feet." A regular Japanese Kanji dictionary (Shogakkan) lists it at "10 shaku about 3.03 meters."

Regards

Michael Rogers

[robuzo]

In my experience, having lived in Japan for around 12 years, people (non-martial artists) in Japan are likely to be unfamiliar with term "jo" in reference to a staff (in fact, there are eleven separate entries for "jo" in the Kenkyusha, none of which mention the staff); most people nowadays will refer to the weapon as the "keibo", or police baton, because it is in the hands of cops that it is commonly seen.

In fact, while an earlier poster mentioned various schools that teach jo-do, it is my understanding that one of the better places to learn it in Tokyo is at one of the larger police stations, most of which offer free lessons in kendo and the jo to the public (even to gaijin, I think).

I studied for about five years at the Tendo-kan in Sangen-Jaya, Tokyo, and while we would occasionally pick up the jo it was not (at that time- the late '80's-early '90's) a really integral part of the training. It is something that I would be interested in studying now; anyone know a good dojo in the Ft. Lauderdale area?