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Thread: Shinto Muso Ryu Lineage

  1. #1
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    Default Shinto Muso Ryu Lineage

    Ladies and Gents of E-budo,

    I'm currently doing a bit of research on the lineage of Shinto Muso Ryu and was wondering if anyone on these forums could shine some light on a particular area, specifically with regards to the lineage prior to Shiraishi Hanjiro. I've had to base most of my research on the Wikipedia article (I know it's not exactly known for it's accuracy) as I don't have access to other sources. I've recently been able to have a look at Shimizu s.'s Jodo Kyouhan (杖道教範) and he includes a long list of names entitled "Shinto Muso Ryu Keifu (Mokuroku Ni Yoru)" (「神道夢想流系譜(目録による)」); I'm trying to match the genealogy listed on Wikipedia to the one in Jodo Kyouhan (JK) and although most of the names in JK are also in the Wiki article, some are not. Does anyone know where they fit in (ie which branch of which historical split, etc)? Here's the list of names I'm interested in here with kanji (I'm including the matching Wiki/JK names without kanji to show their place in Shimizu s.'s list):

    Hatae
    Konishi 小西文太友諒
    Watanabe 渡辺辰助充豊
    Hirano
    Yoshikawa
    Kashita 香下只七
    Tamaike 濱池清市信敏
    Kano 加納伊七信利
    Ookuma 大隈新八信勝
    Nishida Takeyoshi Morishige 西田武吉森茂
    Yokota 横田延次尚正
    Yoshimusa Hanjiro Shigeaki

    Any information is more than welcome. Many thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enagonios View Post
    Ladies and Gents of E-budo,

    I'm currently doing a bit of research on the lineage of Shinto Muso Ryu and was wondering if anyone on these forums could shine some light on a particular area, specifically with regards to the lineage prior to Shiraishi Hanjiro. I've had to base most of my research on the Wikipedia article (I know it's not exactly known for it's accuracy) as I don't have access to other sources. I've recently been able to have a look at Shimizu s.'s Jodo Kyouhan (杖道教範) and he includes a long list of names entitled "Shinto Muso Ryu Keifu (Mokuroku Ni Yoru)" (「神道夢想流系譜(目録による)」); I'm trying to match the genealogy listed on Wikipedia to the one in Jodo Kyouhan (JK) and although most of the names in JK are also in the Wiki article, some are not. Does anyone know where they fit in (ie which branch of which historical split, etc)? Here's the list of names I'm interested in here with kanji (I'm including the matching Wiki/JK names without kanji to show their place in Shimizu s.'s list):

    Hatae
    Konishi 小西文太友諒
    Watanabe 渡辺辰助充豊
    Hirano
    Yoshikawa
    Kashita 香下只七
    Tamaike 濱池清市信敏
    Kano 加納伊七信利
    Ookuma 大隈新八信勝
    Nishida Takeyoshi Morishige 西田武吉森茂
    Yokota 横田延次尚正
    Yoshimusa Hanjiro Shigeaki

    Any information is more than welcome. Many thanks.
    try this one

    http://hfr-rehost.net/http://self/pi...668041364.jpeg

    have fun

  3. #3
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    Merci infiniment, M. Magnon. Where is that from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enagonios View Post
    Hatae
    Konishi 小西文太友諒
    Watanabe 渡辺辰助充豊
    Hirano
    Yoshikawa
    Kashita 香下只七
    Tamaike 濱池清市信敏
    Kano 加納伊七信利
    Ookuma 大隈新八信勝
    Nishida Takeyoshi Morishige 西田武吉森茂
    Yokota 横田延次尚正
    Yoshimusa Hanjiro Shigeaki
    The lineage chart in the link provide reads "Shintō Musō-ryū Jō no Denshō Keizu to Hamaji-ke Kakei" or "Transmission Lineage Chart of Shintō Musō-ryū Jō & the Family Lineage of the Hamaji-Family/House/Clan"

    solid line indicates "jō no denkei"
    dotted line indicates "Hamaji-ke kakei"

    It also says on the chart in the link provided that Hamaji Raigorō was killed in battle during the Saga Rebellion in 1875, but the rebellion was in 1874 according to Wikipedia and Wikipedia-J, could be a typo.

    From my own notes; some given names could be wrong!

    Hatae Kyūhei Norishige (d. 1829, chūkō-no-so Haruyoshi & Jigyō lines)
    Konishi Bunta Tomonobu (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Watanabe Tatsusuke Mitsutoyo (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Hirano Kichizō Yoshihide (d. 1871, Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Yoshikawa Wataru Toshimasa (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Kashita Tadashichi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Hamaji Seiichi Nobutoshi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Kanō Ishichi Nobutoshi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Ōkuma Shinpachi Nobukatsu (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Nishida Takekichi Morishige (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Yokota Nobutsugu Naomasa (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Yoshimura Hanjirō Yoshinobu (Jigyō line)
    Eric Weil
    "Kuji first, Taijutsu last"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enagonios View Post
    Merci infiniment, M. Magnon. Where is that from?
    For the full references:

    https://ndlopac.ndl.go.jp/F/3426XRSK...007&format=999

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi View Post
    The lineage chart in the link provide reads "Shintō Musō-ryū Jō no Denshō Keizu to Hamaji-ke Kakei" or "Transmission Lineage Chart of Shintō Musō-ryū Jō & the Family Lineage of the Hamaji-Family/House/Clan"

    solid line indicates "jō no denkei"
    dotted line indicates "Hamaji-ke kakei"

    It also says on the chart in the link provided that Hamaji Raigorō was killed in battle during the Saga Rebellion in 1875, but the rebellion was in 1874 according to Wikipedia and Wikipedia-J, could be a typo.

    From my own notes; some given names could be wrong!

    Hatae Kyūhei Norishige (d. 1829, chūkō-no-so Haruyoshi & Jigyō lines)
    Konishi Bunta Tomonobu (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Watanabe Tatsusuke Mitsutoyo (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Hirano Kichizō Yoshihide (d. 1871, Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Yoshikawa Wataru Toshimasa (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Kashita Tadashichi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Hamaji Seiichi Nobutoshi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Kanō Ishichi Nobutoshi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Ōkuma Shinpachi Nobukatsu (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Nishida Takekichi Morishige (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Yokota Nobutsugu Naomasa (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Yoshimura Hanjirō Yoshinobu (Jigyō line)
    3 possibilities: or he misscalculated the date with the age, or he wanted to say that the date on the densho is wrong by pointing either he didn't die in saga rebellion or in 1875, or it's a typo.

    But as the autor is a hamachi himself, i guess (hope) he can be true about his own familly

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi View Post
    The lineage chart in the link provide reads "Shintō Musō-ryū Jō no Denshō Keizu to Hamaji-ke Kakei" or "Transmission Lineage Chart of Shintō Musō-ryū Jō & the Family Lineage of the Hamaji-Family/House/Clan"

    solid line indicates "jō no denkei"
    dotted line indicates "Hamaji-ke kakei"

    It also says on the chart in the link provided that Hamaji Raigorō was killed in battle during the Saga Rebellion in 1875, but the rebellion was in 1874 according to Wikipedia and Wikipedia-J, could be a typo.

    From my own notes; some given names could be wrong!

    Hatae Kyūhei Norishige (d. 1829, chūkō-no-so Haruyoshi & Jigyō lines)
    Konishi Bunta Tomonobu (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Watanabe Tatsusuke Mitsutoyo (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Hirano Kichizō Yoshihide (d. 1871, Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Yoshikawa Wataru Toshimasa (Haruyoshi-shiyaku)
    Kashita Tadashichi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Hamaji Seiichi Nobutoshi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Kanō Ishichi Nobutoshi (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Ōkuma Shinpachi Nobukatsu (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Nishida Takekichi Morishige (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Yokota Nobutsugu Naomasa (Jigyō-shiyaku)
    Yoshimura Hanjirō Yoshinobu (Jigyō line)
    Many thanks! Does anyone know the kanji for Haruyoshi and Jigyo?

    According to my Dictionnaire historique du Japon (Historical Dictionary of Japan), the Saga Rebellion was indeed in 1874.

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