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Thread: BSKF Beat WSKO

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean dixie View Post
    Oh dear Kari, couldn't resist? You've nothing to do with UK Shorinji Kempo or the BSKF. You only know what the WSKO affiliated friends have told you and what WSKO party line is. Oh, and the E-Budo threads where, to be honest nothing could really be said for fear of the great WSKO and it's lawyers.
    I also have information from non-WSKO affiliated people. Who used to be in BSKF. And personal information from the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean dixie View Post
    So here you go, if WSKO is the only way to get to your 'top' wherever that maybe...
    I did not actually say that. But it is interesting that you should think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean dixie View Post
    then why have so many talented and formally dedicated instructors forgone that route?
    Most of the talented and formally dedicated instructors who (in Great Britain) have left WSKO are not in BSKF, either.
    They are in UKSKF or have started their own varieties of Kempo.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean dixie View Post
    Are you better than them? Have they all been brainwashed by 'Mizuno' (Formally WSKO director - unpaid) All of them across Japan, Europe and Japan?
    No, I do not feel better than them.
    Some of them (in BSKF) are probably "brainwashed by 'Mizuno' "
    Kari Maki-Kuutti

    www.shorinjikempo.fi

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    I also have information from non-WSKO affiliated people. Who used to be in BSKF. And personal information from the past.
    If you had the right information, and also had a good enough conscience and professed to follow the philosophies of Shorinji Kempo you would have left already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    I did not actually say that. But it is interesting that you should think so.
    Apologies, how should I have read this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    There is only one way to the top

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    Most of the talented and formally dedicated instructors who (in Great Britain) have left WSKO are not in BSKF, either.
    They are in UKSKF or have started their own varieties of Kempo.
    Well respectfully they're not in UKSKF. A fair point about the guys who left though, and when you go train with those guys they also agree that WSKO is a dying organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    No, I do not feel better than them.
    That's nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    Some of them (in BSKF) are probably "brainwashed by 'Mizuno' "
    You can't be further from the truth.
    Sean Dixie

  4. #18
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    Apologies again Kari for a mis-quote above. It should of course have been:

    "All paths do not lead to the top."

    My question however remains the same.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean dixie View Post
    If you had the right information, and also had a good enough conscience and professed to follow the philosophies of Shorinji Kempo you would have left already.

    Well respectfully they're not in UKSKF. A fair point about the guys who left though, and when you go train with those guys they also agree that WSKO is a dying organisation.
    Our instructors are not talented and dedicated? Maehara Sensei? (Ask the Italians). Sensei Peter Moore (Training in the U.K. for 40 years).

    Me? (Don't claim to be especially talented, but certainly dedicated).

    Are you for real?
    Indar Picton-Howell
    印打
    Abujavol

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    That's two, but let's not forget the incident of leaving a kenshi to have a heart attack outside in the car park whilst he was watched by 'sensei' from the window. Safely inside with no responsibilty. Leader? My arse. I'm not particularly talented either and certainly to fat! 😄

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    Before this gets any sillier, I must point out the grammatical slip-up before I burst.
    Most of the talented and formally dedicated instructors who (in Great Britain) have left WSKO.....
    Sean, did you mean "formerly dedicated" (as in, "used to be"), or "formally dedicated" (as in "those who had it stamped on them")? That could be Ade, with his tattoo...
    David Noble
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    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  8. #22
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    Before the split BSKF had (to my knowledge) one 7th dan and three 6th dan Senseis. (Not counting Mr. Mizuno)
    None of them remain in BSKF now.

    Makes one wonder...
    Kari Maki-Kuutti

    www.shorinjikempo.fi

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  10. #23
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    Before the split, one eighth dan (Mizuno sensei), one seventh (Maehara), one sixth (Jee sensei), several fifth (Russ Jenkins, Peter Moore, Paul White, Terry Goodman, Yasue Kadowaki, Cailey Barker).
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    .

    Makes one wonder...
    Makes one wonder... where your getting your information?
    Sean Dixie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripitaka of AA View Post
    Sean, did you mean "formerly dedicated" (as in, "used to be"), or "formally dedicated" (as in "those who had it stamped on them")? That could be Ade, with his tattoo...
    Hi David, sorry about that, I meant the former there. I really do try hard to spell correctly and get the grammar right but I'm slightly dyslexic I think and I just don't 'see' some of the things that slip past me. People who can spell just don't know how lucky they are, I get so angry sometimes! Silly? You haven't given up a huge part of your life in defence of what's right and ALSO in defence of a friend. (I assume? Feel free to PM to correct me) The funny thing is, and most people don't seem to get, is that Sensei Mizuno was really only a part of why we were fighting WSKO. It was WSKO's treatment of the BSKF and their belief that they could ride rough-shod through British justice and assume that kenshi are somehow simply obliged to do as their told without question that riled. It's a shame that two of the most intelligent and nicest guys I know, who were in the thick of it with us are now banned from e-budo so it's left to schmucks like me to try and tell the truth. There's David Dunn of course, but if I may say, I think after teaching himself so much about IP law and fighting WSKO for free years he's probably a bit knackered and needs a break
    Sean Dixie

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  14. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Before the split, one eighth dan (Mizuno sensei), one seventh (Maehara), one sixth (Jee sensei), several fifth (Russ Jenkins, Peter Moore, Paul White, Terry Goodman, Yasue Kadowaki, Cailey Barker).
    Ok, then Russ Jenkins and and Peter Moore got their sixth dans after the split?

    My main point is that the most senior kenshi left BSKF and Mr. Mizuno.
    (Cailey Barker also left, I do not know about the rest on your list).
    Kari Maki-Kuutti

    www.shorinjikempo.fi

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    'Free'
    Sean Dixie

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    Kari,
    I have no idea why you are so vituperative about the BSKF. I just stated the facts. Russell and Peter got their sixth dan after the split, yes. They wanted to try for it in 2007 or so, but Russ wasn't very well and couldn't go to Tadotsu to do it. Mizuno sensei asked hombu if he could take the exam in the UK, but they refused. Ironically, after the split, they did allow it. But don't let facts spoil your narrative.

    Many of the most senior kenshi left both WSKO and the BSKF, that is true. I forgot to mention Chris Lloyd in my list, and apologies for doing so. In my opinion the best Shorinji technicians in the UK are Mizuno sensei (by two country miles), Jee sensei, and Paul White sensei (by a country mile each). They are all in different organisations to each other now, and none in WSKO. They are all "seekers", as my friend Rob Villiers would say. They rely on no one but themselves, and they all strive for constant improvement. Cailey was also coming into that frame. I wish they were all in the BSKF still, but wishes cannot make reality.

    Since I'm in the mood for story-telling, here's another. After Yuji Suzuki's time in Italy ran out, Maehara went to Como branch to be the instructor. In 1980, the senior kenshi there wanted promotion, so they said "grade us or lose your work permit". There was some kerfuffle, and the Italian guys got his work permit revoked. Maehara met Mizuno sensei in 1980 at Doshin So's funeral, and Mizuno sensei said he would help Maehara to get a work permit in the UK. He did exactly that, and it took two years to organise. Maehara took on Oxford University branch at that time.

    The real stories are much more interesting, and far more humane, than the BS.

    Sean, I'm tired of BS, but I'm not tired of trying to tell the real story.
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

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    Sorry Sean, I had to do it. I love reading your posts and would hate to put anyone off adding to the threads.

    David, if you are in the mood, can you fill in a missing bit of history for me. It is from way back, but you seem to have been hanging out in the archives so you might know. Who is Toshio Sato? I recall him being the right-hand kenshi at the closing ceremonies and similar events when I first started. He'd be the guy refilling the sake bottle, the "other" Japanese face alongside Mizuno Sensei. Then one day he stopped being around. I assumed he'd gone home to Japan - as so many people do when their work secondments come to an end - but was told that he'd left Shorinji Kempo after starting to teach another form of Buddhism. I wonder if you could clear that up for me. I'd hate to go on thinking something that was actually just a misunderstood comment.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  18. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean dixie View Post
    It's a shame that two of the most intelligent and nicest guys I know, who were in the thick of it with us are now banned from e-budo so it's left to schmucks like me to try and tell the truth.
    Not that many people get banned from E-Budo, it usually takes quite an effort to be thrown out. Having said that, I agree with you that we miss the contributions of those people. I wonder if any of them would be willing to petition for re-admission? I imagine pride would prevent that. People who take a stand and state their cases are not usually willing to apologise or back down. And rightly so. I'd like to see some stimulating debate and quality threads again... the last few days on here have been entertaining haven't they?
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

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