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Thread: Daito-ryu & Kyoshin meichi-ryu

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    Default Daito-ryu & Kyoshin meichi-ryu

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    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 14th June 2014 at 07:08.
    Nathan Scott
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    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 14th June 2014 at 07:08.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Nathan,

    I have no evidence, but I have long been struck by the seemingly similar body usage on clips I have seen of tatsumi ryu and daito ryu. It is nothing overt, rather how exponents carry themselves something in the training, perhaps. Maybe it is just coincidence, or a mistake on my part, but It's interesting that you have pinpointed a crossover in training there.

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    Hey Nathan,

    Good write up. Thank you for the time and research. I am sure the Bakumatsu/Meiji era was a very interesting time to study budo. It is a shame the Kyoshin Meichi-ryu is dead. We are lucky that any of these ryu survived at all. I think there were some very wise and insightful people that studied these arts and it was awesome they thought to pass them down to modern times inspite of the hardships they faced.

    Best regards,
    Chris
    Christopher Covington

    Daito-ryu aikijujutsu
    Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu heiho

    All views expressed here are my own and don't necessarily represent the views of the arts I practice, the teachers and people I train with or any dojo I train in.

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    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 14th June 2014 at 07:08.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Scott View Post
    Hi guys,

    Thanks for the comments. Tatsumi-ryu hyoho is an art you don't hear much about, and I've only seen footage of them rather recently. They have been more secretive than any other art I've seen so far. While they seem to move well, their movement appears pretty typical of most well developed bugei. Maybe I haven't seen enough of them to form the opinion that you have. As a former naginata guy, I do find it interesting that they tend to hold their naginata so far back on the haft though. Jikishinkage-ryu naginata is the only art (besides Atarashii of course) that holds so far back, and that is only because their naginata are relatively small and light.

    Now, if you're talking about the Tatsumi-ryu of Nihon Buyo, I'm a big fan! Nihon Buyo is great stuff.
    You could well be right. It might well just seem similar, or it may be mistaken on my part. There was a clip on youtube of a Tatsumi ryu embu taken in Hiroshima, I think, including Liam Keeley, that stood out for me. It seems to have been removed. It wasn't anything overt, more a similarity in how some practicioners carried themselves, moved and reacted, that stuck me. If there was any common area it would possibly be a similarity in training rather than direct influence of schools such as Ono ha or Jikishinkage ryu. The fact that Sokaku and a senior practicioner of Tatsumi ryu shared a teacher was worth highlighting. But that's pure speculation on my part.

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    Nathan - actually, quite a few naginata schools hold the weapon close to the base. Toda-ha Buko-ryu, Araki-ryu, Kashima Shinto-ryu, Muhen-ryu come immediately to mind.

    And re Tatsumi-ryu - actually, not so secretive. There are strong dojo outside Japan, most notably Liam Keeley and the Simons in France. They are actually quite prominent members of the Kobudo Shinkokai.

    Oisen - I think it would be straining to reach a connection, given that Sokaku's contact with Tatsumi-ryu was so peripheral. I tried to post links, and ran into trouble with that: I'd simply refer to YouTube - there's a number of Tatsumi-ryu vids. Note that the sword wins against long weapons - Tatsumi-ryu is a kenjutsu school thru and thru. I find their work against spear to be exceptionally interesting.

    I looked for some films of their yawara, but wasn't able to find anything. They have about 50 yawara kata, if I recall correctly. They are in the Budokan archival video, if anyone is fortunate enough to have access to it. Tatsumi ryu actually ran "parallel" to a line of Araki-ryu, first in the Hotta domain, and then in the Sakura domain, when their daimyo transferred, and they with it. If I recall correctly, Tatsumi-ryu was an otome-ryu (official han ryu), whereas Araki-ryu was not.

    There is speculation within the Tatsumi-ryu that their yawara was derived from that of this Araki-ryu jujutsu school (this line is different from anything extant, judging from the makimono - they focused on a lot of throws in idori and standing, and specialized in tanto, kodachi, and some longsword). What I recall from the Budokan film of Tatsumi-ryu yawara was a powerful, staunch classic Edo jujutsu. There was no aikijutsu type techniques.

    A web search will also reveal a good essay by Ben Shepherd referencing both TSKSR and Tatsumi-ryu.

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