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Thread: Deaths in Judo in Japan: how many are strangles & how dangerous are strangles anyway?

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    Default Deaths in Judo in Japan: how many are strangles & how dangerous are strangles anyway?

    During a discussion regarding strangles in police work, the subject of deaths in judo due to strangles, in Japan came up. Rather than drifting the thread, I am starting one here. Here's a few links I found. As best as I can tell, it looks like most deaths are due to head injuries from improper falls.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/sp...judo.html?_r=0
    http://judojiko.net/eng/

    There are typical conditions causing accidents in judo, many of which apply in this incident. The victim:
    1. was a beginner with one and a half months of judo experience
    2. had a headache before the accident
    3. was injured as a result of osotogari
    4. was paired with a taller and heavier senior student
    5. developed acute subdural hematoma

    A - warning issued by the All Japan Judo Federation (AJJF) on the first page of Safe Instruction of Judo (Ver 3 2011) states that “The amount of accidents of young beginners who injure their head or neck is substantial.”

    Note on this page - http://judojiko.net/eng/news/280.html -that of 24 accidents, ALL were from throws.

    ON this page, there is a discussion of deaths due to heat stroke - http://judojiko.net/eng/news/303.html

    So, I googled "deaths in judo from strangles"
    1. Wikipedia has a good piece on chokeholds and mentions its use in law enforcement, contrasting vascular from airway choke - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold - which highlights proper training in my view. One incident resulting in death from a taser occurred because the individual was on a ledge, was tazed and fell to his death. To state the obvious, Tasers don't need to be banned due to this.

    From Sudden Death in Custody - https://books.google.com/books?id=BF...angles&f=false

    This is an interesting summary, pointing out two potential causes of death: bradycardia and arrhythmia based on carotid sinus stimulation, and the other is positional asphyxia. http://www.aikiweb.com/techniques/gunther1.html I will note that there has been a lot of research on the latter, (there is an appendix by Dr. Gary Vilke on this subject in my books for law enforcement, EMS and corrections which discusses this issue - http://edgeworkbooks.com/books-on-de-escalation/).

    Ellis Amdur

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    Finally, I found this reference - FINALLY, I did find this paper - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3572335 Allegedly, no deaths by strangulation since 1882. (Which doesn't explain the schoolboy death I recall, unless it occurred after 1987 (it was a long time ago - don't remember the date). A comment I read on judo information forum stated that the 14 LEO deaths allegedly from strangles cited in this article did not winnow out neck cranks and bar chokes with a baton (the latter being the cause of the carotid strangle being banned in LA. (don't know if it currently is).

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    The author of that piece, EK Koiwai, was a physician who had done judo in his youth. (In Seattle, actually.) At the time of the writing, he was a US judo politician. I have no idea of the depth of his research. But, that said, I have not seen any evidence of deaths in US judo due to injuries, from any cause, during the Issei or Nisei eras.

    These days, inappropriate weight loss methods, previously undiagnosed cardiac conditions, and subdural hematoma seem to be bigger concerns than are choke holds per se.

    A problem for police, though, is that they will rarely have any idea about the current state of health of the person they are trying to restrain. An old fat guy could be a former professional wrestler, while a buff young fellow could have a heart attack.

    It goes the other way, too. A few years ago, I recall a local PD trying to explain how the athletic young officer bravely fought off a 300-pound man, without bothering to mention that the 300-pounder stood about 5'6", and had recently had his second or third spinal fusion. Had the officer simply said, "Keep walking, Fat Boy," he would have fallen on his face, totally exhausted, before clearing the parking lot. But the officer was in a hurry, so she literally tackled him out in front of the grocery store where he'd just shoplifted a steak, and then she failed to control him. Embarrassing stuff. Anyway, Fat Boy got a couple months in county for resisting arrest, while the police chief went on record as saying that more training was required...

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    I'd say let's keep the Fat Boy conversation in the police forum: if you don't think a 300 lb, 5'6" guy resistive guy could be a problem to physically control - regardless of spinal fusions - you do not have a perspective on what it takes to actually do so. Just sayin'

    As for the Judo conversation: remember too that Judo also uses hadaka jime taught in this manner:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is not at all common in BJJ or sub grappling (which is really "no gi" BJJ). It's also a far more dangerous choke and is, in my opinion, attacking the trachea and is not a vascular strangle. In other words, it is literally a "choke" and not a strangle.

    If ANY deaths in Judo were associated with shime waza I'd want to clarify that point.

    Obviously deducing the relative physical conditioning of a resisting subject is not going to always be reasonable. But that is another subject for the Combatives forum. The short answer you dont train your cops enough to ask that of them.
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    Hmmm - trying to remove second image, with the judoka in blue. I switched images after the original post for the more cartoon-y one which shows the choke better - Help from a Mod?

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    I concur in that every BJJ school I've attended, as well as my academy instructors, stressed strangles (vascular restraints) over chokes (airway/trachea - which were also banned by our department) for the simple reason that a person will become unconscious quicker and the application of the submission is easier to control (i.e. less dangerous).

    Anecdotally, there was man choked to death by his teenage cousin back in 2012 from a rear naked choke that was held too long. (http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...ile_wrest.html)

    This certainly isn't a death-by-choke in any kind of training setting and certainly not judo. Sadly, it sounds like a case of horseplay that resulted in an actual technique applied with poor judgement compounded with an unwillingness to tap.

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