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  1. #1
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    Default What is karate?

    Hi all. This is out of variots discussions with training partners and general sessions attended.

    What is karate?

    Let me explain my question. Some dojo you attend will be pure line work, some like to focus on self defence techniques others sport and point fighting...and so on. I wonder which of these actually bare any resemblance to ACTUAL karate?

    I had a recent chat and due to my judo training I often see throws in kata that are probably not there so my take on kata bunkai is often slightly different to those I train with but I would look to throw if I'm in close whereas the people I train with would NEVER grapple and see it as a waste of time and being as judo is nothing more than a sport I've nothing to discuss in terms of actual application! I'd bet good money the judo boys would destroy the karate class easily but why is that?

    Judo we train to fight every session. Every session has actual application yeah sure you don't punch and kick etc but you do have to test your techniques against a non compliant opponent. In karate I don't tend to do that even sparring doesn't give that. Not to the same extent anyway.

    But to be the karate guys should be above that? Or have I just been brainwashed with movies lol.

    I look at the old videos by Frank Brennen etc and their techniques are incredible their focus amazing and the sparring at the compitions they won was almost like watching a stand up mma fight.

    How do I get that?

    The main question is of course what is karate and I ask that because I'm not sure what I think is karate is actually karate. Has it just merged with jujutsu and various other arts so much that what was karate doesn't exist? Or am I just at the wrong club?

    I see these guys in their 60s that just have an almost spiritual aire about them. Those of us coming up behind them don't have anything like that

    I'll never be the next frank but I'd like to train toward that level. I want to be the best I can be. I train hard but I cone away from judo absolutely broken whereas karate I'm not.

    To me you should only be able to say you can do a technique when you can do it to an opponent in kumite if you can't then it needs further training.

    Anyway in the middle of the rambling is the question.

    What is karate?
    Olympic sport?
    Martial art?
    Pointless?
    Life skill?

  2. #2
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    I'm not sure I can answer the question in the framework you provide.

    You seem to be making some assumptions that are, at the very least, questionable. Just b/c that is the state of things in your life/where you personally practice there is no reason to presume that is the case everywhere for everyone.

    I was taught that "karate" was form of "last ditch" self defense practice for use when you didn't have a weapon, couldn't get to something that could be used as a weapon and couldn't run/get away. To be used only in situations that required seriously injuring people b/c you had no other choice.
    As an example, I recall a story of the one of the old experts (Tomari-te if memory serves) a woodworker by trade he was attacked in his shop and snatched up a hammer and hit the attacker in the head, when asked about why he used a hammer instead of his karate, the expert looked at the questioner like he was crazy, from his perspective he DID use karate, very good karate. So perhaps the approach taken by the old school karate folks is/was a bit different than the modern one.....maybe.

    To answer your direct questions.

    "Olympic sport?" Yes, my chagrin and IMO to its detriment, it might be used in an Olympic sport

    "Martial Art?" Yes.

    "Pointless?" Like any other art, depends on the teacher, how its taught, the ability of the student and how one defines "pointless."

    "Life skill" Maybe, I would hope that one gets more from their art than the ability to bust people up. Everybody gets old and I would hate to think that I spent decades learning something that has a limited shelf life, so to speak, and only a single application (actually that is paraphrase of a buddy of mine)
    Last edited by cxt; 24th January 2017 at 16:12.
    Chris Thomas

    "While people are entitled to their illusions, they are not entitled to a limitless enjoyment of them and they are not entitled to impose them upon others."

    "Team Cynicism" MVP 2005-2006
    Currently on "Injured/Reserve" list due to a scathing Sarcasm pile-up.

  3. #3
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    thanks for the reply. and I agree, i'm not keen on the Karate Olympic thing, too much bouncy tag and screaming for me.

    Anyway, I agree with the points made, I always think of Karate as a last resort art but in that last resort you want skills that work and i'm not sure i'm developing them. I guess the crux of my question is coming down to whether I need to find a new club. I am intending to sit for Shodan at Christmas and it's obviously a milestone - one that I don't feel is worth the paper it's printed on where I currently train - I've never met a poor Judoka that is black belt as they had to fight for it. Whereas in Karate I've met some bloody terrible ones that struggle to make a decent front kick. I don't want that for myself. But would going to another association help? or out of the frying pan into the fire??

    When I was 6 and started at my first Karate session discipline was expected and technique was the be all and end all and you worked hard I still remember tips that brown belts gave me back then but I haven't seen that type of atmosphere anywhere and to be honest I miss it. I want to have that back and my long term goal would be to have my own club to create that atmosphere but I think it needs a strong association behind it... one I have yet to find (not that I know them all of course and not speaking ill of clubs I've never been to so please don't take this as a judgement on anything other than my current situation)

  4. #4
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    Karate is what karate does.
    Ed Boyd

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  6. #5
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    What is Karate? It is what you make of it. It has been said that the usefulness of a cup is in its emptiness; a cup that's half full of Judo can't be filled with Karate. Leave your preconceptions at the door, and go in without thought of comparing this to that, or "well, what I'd do in this situation is..."
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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  8. #6
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    There is a huge difference between modern karate-do and karate-jutsu. There is also a big difference between what most people think karate is and what the Okinawans train.

    I would go back to the origins of the word karate...empty hand...not what most people think it is...it is not about being weaponless. It is about being empty enough o employ all your training to fight...fill in the spaces and blanks (empty) with whatever is needed to survive.

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