ZNIR Toho?

[Paul Steadman]

Hi All,

Can anyone advise/update me on the Zen Nihon Iaido Renmei Toho series? I have been training and teaching 5 waza ie:

1) Mae-giri
2) Zengo-giri
3) Kiri-age
4) Shiho-giri
5) Kissaki-gaeshi

The other day I was checking out the Meishinkan web-site (MJER-Brisbane, Australia) where I saw two extra waza listed (can't recall the waza names).

So I was wondering if extra waza have been added by a technical committee? I would be interested to find out when and where this occured for historical/technical reference. I am aware that the ZNKR have added two extra waza to the Seitei-gata for a total of twelve, but I wasn't aware of the ZNIR changes!

Thanks guys.

Regards,

Paul Steadman

[Paul Steadman]

Hi All,

27 views but not 1 reply, c'mon all you iai guys! PLEASE, PLEASE help me....PRETTY PLEASE!

Cheers,

Paul Steadman

[Chi]

Originally posted by Paul Steadman
Hi All,

27 views but not 1 reply, c'mon all you iai guys! PLEASE, PLEASE help me....PRETTY PLEASE!

"Patience Young Grasshopper..."

Well... you see. I probably account for two of those viewings (a whole 7% or so), and seeing as a) I do ZNKR, not ZNIR and b) I am only a beginner, that may account for my lack of knowledge on this matter... and since so many posters in this forum study Koryu-ha, it is entirely possible that no-one who has as yet viewed this post knows the answer to your question...

Sorry,

Chris.

[JohnRay]

Dear Mr. Steadman,
Sorry, I can't be more complete, but am flying out the door on my way to Victoria, B.C. to train with Eisaka-sensei, 10 Dan ZNIR/Seitokai, Eishin-ryu.
First, I am pretty sure the group in Australia is not ZNIR, and Second, unless things have happened VERY quickly since my last visit to Japan, or folks who just got back from the yearly national ZNIR gathering are keeping a secret from me..... there are still only 5 waza in Toho.
Sincerely,
John Ray
ZNIR/Seitokai
Denton, TX

[Paul Steadman]

Hi John,

Thanks for the info. According to their web-site the Meishinkan is a member of the All Japan Iaido Federation (ZNIR ???). I've e-mailed the Ozzie shibucho to request info on the 2 extra waza. The list they provide is as follows:

1- Mae-giri (front-cut)
2- Zengo-giri (cuts to fron and back)
3- Karatake (?)
4- Kiri-age (rising cut)
5- Shiho-giri (cutting in 4 directions)
6- Kissaki-gaeshi (turning the sword-tip...over...etc)
7- Kari-gane (?)

Does anyone else have any info on the ZNIR Toho waza?

Cheers,

Paul Steadman

[ImRe]

As somebody who trains under the ZNKR, I'm not the least qualified to answer, but the following URL might help somewhat ...
http://www.kvac.uu.se/~agback/iaido/toho.html

[Paul Steadman]

Hi ImRe,

Thanks for the link! So it seems that there exists in the wide world of iaido 3 (or more) federations utilising a standard set of kata/waza:

1- Zen Nippon Iaido Renmei Toho
(All Japan Iaido Federation Sword Method....5 waza)
2- Zen Nippon Kendo Renmei Iaido Seitei-gata
(All Japan Kendo Federation Iaido Standard Kata....12 waza)
3- Dai Nippon Iaido Renmei Toho
(Greater Japan Iaido Federation Sword Method....7 waza)

I seem to remember hearing of a Zen Koku Iaido Renmei (All National Iaido Federation) as well. Does the Dai Nippon Kendo Renmei still exist? I wonder if the DNIR & the DNKR are branches of the Dai Nippon Butokukai. Would I also be wrong to assume that the ZNIR & ZNKR are members or branches of the Budokan, or are all of the above seperate entities with no afilliation to other organisations?

Regards,

Paul Steadman

[Arodocue1]

Greetings Paul.

I was wondering if you were able to find which schools contributed the two extra waza for the DNIR toho. I was trying to use the link in the thread above and my computer isn't loading it.

Anthony Wallace

[Cady Goldfield]

Probably the link is no longer viable. It's been a long time since this thread was posted!

[hyaku]

ZNIR or Zen I Ren established in 1954 after the abandonment of Dai Nippon Butokukai and was the only Iaido Renmei. The ZNKR (Zen ken ren)first four kata were formulated in 1969. To the best of my knowledge with information coming from Iwata Norikazu Menkyo Kaiden MJER. Butokukai is the name taken by a totally new group that one should avoid. As the mainstay of iai practitioners are ZNIR and ZNIR.

Smacks of political motivation as they were keen to get away from pre war ideals.

Sorry i cant help you with the kata. I am a member but perform my own ryu waza for mohan engi before ZNIR gradings.

[MarkCros]

Hello Paul,


As far as I know, the Zen Nihon Iaido Renmei (ZNIR) Toho series consists of seven waza. The five waza that you mentioned are part of the original Toho series developed by the ZNIR in the 1960s. The other two waza in the series are Gyaku-gote and Ganmen-ate.