Interaction vs. Reaction

[Chuck Clark]

Brently,

Hear! Hear!

Good post.

[Paul Schweer]

Originally posted by Brently Keen

Clear intentions are very important to good training. The student doesn't have to be clear (especially in the beginnnig) however if he has a good teacher, he only needs to trust the teacher and follow the training method. The student only needs to be clear about imitating the teacher and absorbing what the teacher has to teach, clarity will come with training. BUT, the teacher has a tremendous responsiblity to be clear in their intent, the teacher must not betray the students trust.

What are the risks of a student’s postponing his development and understanding of intent? Wouldn’t such a student be likely to learn that the purpose of training is secondary to teacher emulation and loyalty? What happens when this student begins teaching?

Originally posted by Brently Keen

Students need to be very diligent in seeking out great teachers who are able and willing to share their knowledge and expertise….

If a student doesn’t first and foremost work to understand his training’s purpose, how can he reasonably hope to know a good teacher when he sees one?

[Brently Keen]

Paul wrote:

"What are the risks of a student’s postponing his development and understanding of intent? Wouldn’t such a student be likely to learn that the purpose of training is secondary to teacher emulation and loyalty? What happens when this student begins teaching?"
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The risks are that the student has to trust the teacher. But, (and this is a big BUT) the teacher must earn the trust and not betray the trust. The teacher has to be clear in their intent. I am extremely leery of any teacher who demands and insists on this trust, especially while not being clear. Trust is very much like respect, you give it, and you earn it, but you don't demand it. And you certainly shouldn't charge a lot for it. Loyalty likewise should be given and earned, but never demanded.

A good teacher is not only confident in their martial abilities, but should also be confident in their teaching abilities. They should be willing and able to teach you their skills, and they should have a method for doing so.

I would not go to any teacher unless they could do something that I really wanted to learn how to do. The student's intent then should be on the aquisition of skills and abilities possessed by the teacher. The teacher's responsibility is to provide a training environment, and teaching method for transmitting their knowledge and expertise. They have to be able and willing to do that. I would look far and wide for this type of teacher, and then I would set about immersing myself into the teaching and training, striving to imitate the teacher in order to absorb what they have to offer.

Too many teachers are on an ego trip. They only want to be the best fighter, or most famous and wise master, or they're on a power or control trip, and they want to be cult leaders, they want get girls, or whatever. It goes without saying that students should avoid these types of teachers at all costs.

Too many students are teaching, and that's part of the problem. A teacher has the responsibility to teach. Too often the teacher is lazy, or doesn't have the time, or has too many students to bother giving them all the attention they need to aquire his skills and abilities so he delegates his teaching to a student who is not ready or qualified to teach.

Students should focus their energies on their own studies, by trying to improve on their own weaknesses, and trying keep a beginner's mind, rather than worrying about controlling a class of kids, or trying to teach their juniors or peers something they can't even do well themselves. Leave the teaching to qualified and gifted teachers.
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Paul wrote:

"If a student doesn’t first and foremost work to understand his training’s purpose, how can he reasonably hope to know a good teacher when he sees one?"
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He can't, that's my point. The purpose of training is to aquire skills and abilities is it not? One should look at as many schools as you can in person, and when you find a reputable teacher with the skills and abilities you would like to learn, along with the willingness to teach them, then I'd enroll and get the process started.

Brently Keen

[George Ledyard]

Originally posted by Brently Keen
Paul,

Students need to be very diligent in seeking out great teachers who are able and willing to share their knowledge and expertise, to help facilitate the students aquisition of skills along the way.

Brently Keen

[Edited by Brently Keen on 07-12-2000 at 01:52 PM]

The problem is that most people do not have any idea what a good teacher is. Most people seem to look for someone who will validate them. Maybe they have a bunch of projections that they'd like to lay on somebody and they look for a teacher that will live up to the image. Any half way competent practitioner can look good to a beginner.

Saotome Sensei has been talking about this issue for many years. He has always maintained that it is his goal to create a group of professional instructors. By this he means professional in the sense of fully trained, certified instructors whose status as instructors would be universally recognized because of their professionalism. That is what the uchi-deshi were trained to be. They were sent out to spread Aikido around the world. They were given training that the regular public did not get. These men are referred to as Shihan or master instructors.

Most Americans looking at an art such as Aikido have no idea what a "master" would be. I remember being in the DC dojo when a hapless visitor from California made the mistake of referring to George Leonard as an Aikido Master. I tried to dive for cover but was too far from the exit to make my escape before the 45 minute tirade ensued. Sensei needless to say was upset that students of the art have no real idea what a quality instructor really is. So a thoghtful and articulate man like George Leonard, who is a wonderful teacher I am sure, is mistaken for someone who has real high level mastery. Sensei saw the tape of a demo that was done by ATM of a group of Aikido instructors (one of their "friendship" series). He was fairly upset by it. He said "Don't these people realize that they are only doing beginner Aikido? People who really know something will be seeing these tapes. They will think that Aikido is silly and ineffective" (paraphrase). He felt that once you go public via demos (or books, atpes, etc.) you are a representative of the art. He felt that it actually damages the art to have people of medocre skill presenting themselves to the public as teachers.

But there is no solution for this problem because there is no actual standard that means anything to judge whether a teacher is competent. Dan rankings are a joke. In Aikido you can have a fourth or fifth dan who doesn't even know who to do a sword cut, who is completely lacking in any ability to apply his technique martially. And there are many studenst who can't even tell the difference. There is no accepted standard for when a student sets himself as a teacher. We have inherited a system that accepts shodans and nidans as teachers (this was due to the early days of Aikido in which the lower level black belts were the senior teachers in the country aside from a very small number of Japanese Shihan.) In Japan there is no way that anyone under 4th Dan minimum would be setting up his own school. In fact there are often many sixth and seventh dans simply training at the school of a high level teacher, not feeling the need to go off and start their own place.

I really do not know if there is a solution for his issue. Perhaps over many years the public will becaome more educted about these issues and develop a level of discernment when it comes to looking for a teacher. In the meantime Caveat Emptor!

[AikiTom]

George wrote:
Sensei saw the tape of a demo that was done by ATM of a group of Aikido instructors (one of their "friendship" series). He was fairly upset by it. He said "Don't these people realize that they are only doing beginner Aikido? People who really know something will be seeing these tapes. They will think that Aikido is silly and ineffective" (paraphrase).

Yes, and actually there are two of the tapes like that. I remember pulling out one of them to show my father about aikido - I hadn't viewed much of it yet, and it was embarassing. I think I know the one you're referring to, George, and this one was worse, lackluster attitudes, very slow execution, repetitive techniques during randori.

George wrote:
I really do not know if there is a solution for his issue. Perhaps over many years the public will becaome more educted about these issues and develop a level of discernment when it comes to looking for a teacher. In the meantime Caveat Emptor!

I think sometimes people find about as much excellence as they're looking for (or willing to settle for), and as in many pursuits, that distribution of "excellence" may approximate a bell-shaped curve.

My positive observation is that since a lot of later "truths" of aikido are essentially self-discovered (as O-sensei may have said, "They are already within you."),
serious practitioners may live to improve even the mediocre - a positive sort of evolution.

Also, to comment on the "sanctity" of the teacher-student relationship mentioned earlier, if the "real" is valued, hopefully such relationships will endure, be realized for how great they are, and multiply!

[Edited by AikiTom on 07-19-2000 at 11:28 PM]

[Paul Schweer]

I've received a number of helpful email messages on this subject from Gil Gillespie. I've done a little editing and included the results below.

Thank you, Gil.

From email messages authored by Gil Gillespie

The interaction you're after... will come as a BYPRODUCT of your training....

Work on blending, work on relaxation, work on breath, work on smoothness. By just being AWARE of your goal of interaction -- that will come. All by itself. In steps. And a long time from now (or not long) you'll see you've been interacting for a long time.

Use... repetitiveness perhaps to focus on the interaction you're seeking.... If you know uke's attack [use] that knowledge not to circumvent him but to train yourself in not anticipating him (which you will at first) but interacting with his attack. Again don't force it... You face uke, you know the attack. Go blank on that. Think blending with him (blend with his internal energy of deciding to attack you....), then comes the blending with his attack....

Join with their mental intent, join with their attack. Don't try to out-quick them....

Your challenge now is to harmonize with the speed of your partner....

So just keep training. You have a goal now in your training. Don't put any timetable or pressure on [yourself]. Relax, breathe, center, join, extend. Each time. Every time. Remember ichi go, ichi e. By retaining awareness of that goal you will reach that goal, and not notice "when" it happened.