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Thread: Behind the Back?

  1. #1
    Roger Conant Guest

    Default Behind the Back?

    In the current (October) issue of Black Belt, there’s an interesting story about a sword illustrated. The author says the sword was taken from a Japanese soldier during WWII. He was captured and as a US soldier approached him, he pulled the sword from where he’d hidden it behind his back and sliced the guy “from clavicle to umbilicus.” Other US soldiers immediately shot the Japanese and that’s how the sword was taken.

    This has me wondering. How exactly would this have worked? If you’re a soldier approaching a captured Japanese, you’re pretty much on your toes, right? Even if you weren’t, wouldn’t you be suspicious of a guy standing there with one hand and arm behind his back?
    How would a person hold a sword behind himself and not look really, really suspicious? And how could he draw the weapon without making a movement large enough to attract a lot of attention before he could even unsheathe it? This isn’t a typical situation. We’re talking about wartime, when you’ve got to be suspicious of any captured soldiers you’re approaching.

    Anyone have any ideas about this?

  2. #2
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    Lightbulb

    Sounds like a tall tale to me, if it is true, I'm sure there is a military report to back it up, somewhere!

    If it is true, I would suggest that the weapon used would probably have to have been a short sword or bayonet. The reason being, drawing a sword from behind your back would limit the blade length to something less then the length of your arm.

    As to how..well..everyone makes mistakes, like shouldering your weapon when it should be in your hands, or talking to your mate instead of looking at a prisoner. Time to check for that report.
    Nulli Secundus

    Ed Chart

  3. #3
    H. Hoshino Guest

    Cool Japanese sword / Used by a tall Japanese soldier

    Dear sword enthusiast,

    I was the one who have written that article a few years ago in the October issue of BlackBelt magazine, the oldest & the biggest MA magazine in the US.

    When I purchaced this incredible sword ( Produced by one of the Doudanuki group swordsmiths ) from a WWII veteran in 1987, he told me about the story.

    In April, 1945 in Iojima, when a 6-foot-tall lieutenant came out from a cave to surrender, he had his sword back placed vertically .
    Both of his hands were in the air. The approaching US GIs could not see his back-placed sword from the front. When one of the GIs approached him within a 4 feet away from him, a Japanese soldier bent his elbow to reach the Tsuka and pulled his Katana upward then sliced him from clavicle to embilicus. This was the true Kesa-giri skill in the Kenjutsu. The seller was the one who shot a tall Japanese soldier right after his comrade was killed within 15 feet away from him.

    The blade length of this sword is 2 Shaku 3 Sun 5 Bu or 70.5 cm. And this sword is very wide and heavy.

    Will be talking with you again.

    Sincerely,

    H. Hoshino / On a Happy Day in San Francisco, California


    PS. I will be glad to send the zerox copies to any fellow MA practitioner, who wants to read this BlackBelt Magazine article written by me, upon request. You must let us know your real name, address and E-Mail address to receive this free copy of magazine article.

  4. #4
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    Post

    Mr. Hoshino,
    Please go back and read all of my other replies to people to understand how rare this is for me. Congratulations.
    You creep me out.
    Seriously, (most of us) know nothing about you at all, yet you continually ask that other people "meet" you or that we give you our addresses. Why do you need that? Will you show up on my doorstep one day because I asked to see a Black Belt article? Why do you need to know my real name? Did Black Belt give you permission to reproduce their article? The questions seem to keep adding up to more than the sum of the answers. Sorry, I forgot that I lurk now.
    Daniel Garner
    Proud member of the
    Zombie Gun Club
    Denton branch

  5. #5
    H. Hoshino Guest

    Cool Japanese formality

    Dear Daniel San,

    It is a good tactic that you do not trust anyone. I do not either.

    It was a just a formality since I was going to give you a free copy of BlackBelt magazine.

    I needed your address to send the free copy of Black Blelt magazine. In other words, I was going to pay for the postage, envelope fee, and the copy of BB magazine.

    Well, you can contact directly BB magazine company to get your copy.

    Sincerely,

    H. Hoshino / On a Happy Day in San Francisco, California

  6. #6
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    Wink

    Well, this is an interesting website, at least.

    http://members.aol.com/Sfkatana/
    Cady Goldfield

  7. #7
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    Default

    Hoshino san,

    Sounds feasable if he was 6 feet with ape like arms and a short enough blade to be able to draw it. But if he drew it after he had surrendered his brain was ape-like thats for sure.

    Would this add some value to the price of the blade?

    Is there a moral in this something like "Dont draw swords after you surrender. You get shot"

    Maybe someone could call Taratino and we could get it put in Kill Bill 3

    Sorry to be sarcastic but most of the people that post here are a little more than just enthusiasts. Our appreciation is based on using the sword as an educational tool. Maybe if you joined some anime thread they would be more appeciative.

    Please dont continue the thread with some comment like "He died like a Samurai" Its still breakfast time here in Japan and I wanted a quite day

    Hyakutake Colin
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

  8. #8
    H. Hoshino Guest

    Cool Japanese sword used in the Iojima

    Dear my fellow Japanese sword enthusiast,

    At that time in 1945, the Japanese Imperial Army officers were instructed to kill as many Americans as possible. This was the terrible condition that both sides of the commanders were telling kill their enmy to their lower rank soldiers.

    Both side of Army officers were shouting racial name calling while they were shooting their weapons. As you know, there is no such a thing as moral, courtesy, respect or trust in the war. It was not like a movie " The Last Samurai ". It did not matter who die or who lived.

    Probably we never can imagine what kinds of minds they had to go through and win the WWII.

    When I appraise the Japanese swords at my Dojo in San Francisco, I hear terrible and sad stories from former Japanese & US soldiers. I observe their stories as a 3rd person who belongs to neither side. There are many one-sided story tellers everywhere.

    Sincerely,

    H. Hoshino / On a Happy Day in San Francisco.





  9. #9
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    Default yup

    Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
    Well, this is an interesting website, at least.

    http://members.aol.com/Sfkatana/
    I espescially like how everyone's ethnicity is labelled, but their name is totally secret. Also seems that most "members" quickly become frequent customers and students. My HUD's lighting up like a Christmas tree here...

    What kind of a sword society doesn't even have pictures on their web site?
    Christian Moses
    **Certified Slimy, Moronic, Deranged and Demented Soul by Saigo-ha Daito Ryu!**
    Student of:
    Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
    Tuesday Night Bad Budo Club (TM)

  10. #10
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    Default Tall tales and sword sales

    Weeellll ... the Japanese aren't above telling tall tales, and, quite, frankly, accepting Black Belt magazine as any sort of authorit on budo matters is a bit far fetched.

    I don't doubt a bit that some similar things happened (gunto were often much shorter than other swords and could possibly be concealed this way ...).

    Dunno. None of us were there and tales get stretche din the telling.

    However, I agree with Colin and feel this is probably, um, odd at best.

    Ans anybody who creates their own system of ninjutsu from karate and kobudo (which is, um, Okinawan, yes?) makes my ears perk up.

    So, Colin, whatcha think about the nito ryu mentioned here?

    Anyhow, just got off the langlauf track and boy are my legs tired ...

    Chuck
    Chuck Gordon
    Mugendo Budogu
    http://www.budogu.com/

  11. #11
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    Talking

    Yup, I noticed that too, Christian. T'was pretty hard to miss.
    Cady Goldfield

  12. #12
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    Default

    As far as the solider approaching the man without his weapon in hand, this is standard for the Australian Army. At least one guy has a riffle trained on the "enemy" to be searched, while an individual moves in without a weapon to search and restrain. The reason he has no weapon is:
    1. have both hands free
    2. not chance of providing a weapon to the "enemy".

    As long as the guy moving in to do the search and restraint does not cross the line of sight of those trained on the "enemy" he is well protected.

    He would obviously approach from behind and the "enemy" is made to place hands in sight etc.

    Having said this every unit will have its own SOP for this type of thing, but this is the basic method that is used. If such a procedure is followed it would be very unlikely that the "enemy" could kill it would have to be "aiuchi".
    Tim Atkinson
    Shinto Muso Ryu 神道夢想流
    Shinto Seishin Ryu 真途静心流
    Gold Coast, Australia

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