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Thread: Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto-ryu

  1. #46
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    Talking

    Do I qualify for cookies and milk if I answer?

    By the way, Grandmaster Superfly Ultra-Mega Super-Saiyajin DaiSoke, I believe hanetsurube-no-bo is #5. Yonban ha, kasahazushi deshou? Of course, I know that you were just testing us...

    Do I get a black belt with a gold star for pointing that out?

  2. #47
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    <damn decaffeinated coffee!!> Very well done, Adam. Of, course it was a test..hehe...er, uhm, the 89th Soke NEVER makes mistakes. You noticed the hidden (i.e. deliberate) mistake i planted within the question to throw lesser foes off the track quite skillfully. And no. You don't get milk OR cookies, becuase you are an insider, you have caused me great loss of face in a public forum, and you are an all-around mean nasty person-type. I will give you SOMETHING black, though, with stars to boot! I challenge you to the ancient and honorable duel of the 3 foot salamis, so that i may restore my honor. I hope you are mentally prepared for a Hormmel whoopin'. Anyway. Yes, Hanetsurube-no-bo is #5, not #4, Kasahazushi-no-bo. The 89th Headmaster has spoken.

    [Edited by gmellis on 08-21-2000 at 11:51 PM]
    Greg Ellis
    I like autumn best of all, because its tone is mellower, its colors are richer and it is tinged with a little sorrow. Its golden richness speaks not of the innocence of spring, nor the power of summer, but of the mellowness and kindly wisdom of approaching age. It knows the limitations of life and it is content.

  3. #48
    core Guest

    Default Authorized teachers

    The comment that Otake Sensei is the only qualified teacher of Katori Shinto Ryu is incorrect.

    Sugino Sensei received his menkyo from the headmaster at the time (dunno his name) many years ago. This entitles him to teach, and to pass on his own menkyo to his students.

    AFAIK, and others here may know more about this than I. But I do know that Sugino Sensei granted menkyo to a number of his students, and that he approves of dojos teaching KSR in places such as Milan, Norway and Montreal.

    If you consider Sugino Sensei qualified then there's no reason to consider these teachers unqualified.

    On the other hand, I also know that at least one of Otake Sensei's students set himself up as a teacher without the menkyo. So there are unscrupulous types out there.

  4. #49
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    Unhappy Let's not go there

    Hi Corey,

    Glad to see that you've signed up at E-Budo. Prepared for the addiction?

    But, re: the Sugino/Otake thing, really, it is best to let it drop. Nip it in the bud, so to speak. Debates of this sort have infected budo discussions for quite some time and will unfortunately continue to do so, despite the fact that they always get us absolutely nowhere.

    You and I have talked about this in the past (what, about 2 years ago or so...) and as I recall, we agreed to disagree. As neither of our opinions is likely to change, that is the best solution, I think.

    I have a definite opinion on the subject. Don't get me wrong. I absolutely believe that what I have been taught regarding this subject is right, and that other opinions are, however sincerely held, mistaken. But I also have only just started to realise how useless it is for me to try and convince others that I am right. Why?

    1) The only people I would ever really want to (or need to) convice (i.e. my dojo-mates) already share the same views. Everybody else is, with regard to this matter, superfluous. I mean, hey, I want to be friends and all, and I bear no ill-will towards anyone, but unless someone has taken the keppan and joined the Shimbukan, anything they say regarding TSKSR has no bearing on anything at all.

    2) Sometimes trying to convince a "budo enthusiast" that a different opinion is valid is like trying to tell those Jehovah's Witnesses that come to your door at 4 p.m. on a Saturday afternoon that "Hey, I just don't believe in God." It is a waste of time and you'll end up in the same place as you started, only a hell of a lot more fatigued.

    3) I've tried to learn from most of my Japanese dojo-mates, who, while having the same opinons as I do, don't go around trying to convince others that they are right: it just doesn't matter. What some 16-year old wannabe-samurai living in his parents' basement in rural Missouri thinks about TSKSR has abslutely NO bearing on the result of my going out to the dojo in Narita and practising my ass off. Otake sensei let me become a member of the dojo, not to run about and defend his name against all comers (assistance which he does not need at all), but to become good at what I do and to let my skill speak for me and the dojo. All other members of my dojo are quite confident in their belief in our ryu. It is only too bad that it has taken me so long to develop that same confidence.

    So, the point of all this is: the debate which yet again threatens to bubble up is irrelevant. It doesn't matter. It has no bearing on your practice or mine. The only people who really seem to get into it are the non-initiates, and what they think about it means absolutely nothing.

    You believe in what you practice? Fine, keep practising. I believe in what I practice, so I'll keep on at it. In the meantime, let's meet up for a beer next time I'm in Van.

    Cheers

  5. #50
    core Guest

    Talking First day, what can I tell you?

    I know, I know, I should lurk for a while before posting.

    Poor Impulse Control, what can I say?

    Hi Adam. Guess I shouldn't be surprised to see you here.

  6. #51
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    Hello Core,

    Welcome to E-budo. Please note that full names are required for messages (the simplest way to do this is to configure it into your sig).

    Be well,
    Jigme
    Jigme Chobang Daniels
    aoikoyamakan at gmail dot com

  7. #52
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    Default

    I conducted a proxy interview with Otake sensei inside his home this past summer; the results will appear in the next issue of Dragon Times, due out mid-March. My written questions were presented by Carl McClafferty and interpreted by Scott Laking. Otake sensei's responses are recorded on tape.

    This is the most recent official interview he has had to date, as far as I know... at least conducted by non-Japanese. He did have some articles/interviews printed in Hiden magazine a few years back, but they were in Japanese.

    Although Otake sensei did not disclose any deep secrets, he did have some interesting things to say regarding succession (next soke), why the current soke does not practice, teaching authority, etc. Again, no big secrets ... but I'm sure a few items will be interesting.

    The link http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes/Pages/Dthome.htm will take you to the Dragon Times page mentioning the interview. If you are interested, please contact David Chambers (publisher) or John Edwards (editor)-- you can find their contact numbers somewhere on the DT web site.

    Regards,
    guy
    Guy H. Power
    Kenshinkan Dojo

  8. #53
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    Default

    here's an "interesting" website for y'all;

    http://www.katorishintoryu.freeserve.co.uk/

    I'm not sure why this chap occasionally changes the "shoden" of tenshin shoden katori shinto ryu to "shodan" but his bio is very colorful;

    "Shihan Balmer worked as a Mercenary in Africa and Cambodia where he had close contact with the Infamous Pol Pot.He was an international bodyguard for business people travelling across Europe and Asia in the sixties. his most famous client was Idi Amin ruler of Uganda. "


    I thought of sticking this post on the bad budo forum but I really don't want to get on the wrong side of someone who worked for Idi Amin
    Last edited by Bambi; 11th May 2001 at 08:58.

  9. #54
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    Default Hmmm....

    I am definately not going to argue with a guy who claims to have worked with Pol Pot and Idi Amin...
    However, despite the information on his training history (and he does seem to be a first rate martial artist) there is only as much infomation on T.S.K.S.R. as can be gleaned from other web sites and other books (i.e. The Deity and The Sword- Otake Risuke.)
    Maybe he would like to post here and settle the issue but at first glance the site seems to lack any in depth mention of his training in T.S.K.S.R. (apparently he has trained under Sensei Otake and others but details would have been nice..), indeed in anything other than Gendai Budo.
    But as I said I am not going to argue here...I think I hear someone out back.........Ho-hum..
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  10. #55
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    Default Re: Hmmm....

    Originally posted by fifthchamber
    I am definately not going to argue with a guy who claims to have worked with Pol Pot and Idi Amin...
    Given that Pol Pot and Idi Amin were genocidal dictators, isn't this a bit like claiming to have worked with Hitler? Don't people get arrested for that?

    Some quotes
    "Shihan Balmer travelled overland to China in the early sixties to perfect his training, a journey in those days that was only undertaken by explorers."

    Does this mean 1860's?

    "The Martial art of Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu Bu Jitsu can not be approached without delving
    into Japanese history,Judo, Aikido, Taekwondo, Kendo, Kung Fu and the many systems of Bu Jitsu
    and Ju jitsu had not even been thought of. The art is an integral part of the history of Japan and the point of origin for all Japanese martial arts."

    Those of you more versed in koryu might be able to confirm that, but it's the first I've heard of it and I've studied a little Japanese history.

    "Shihan Balmer is an undefeated world Kempo Champion , The competition was discontinued in the seventies because it was so violent but has been revitalised by the World Self Defence Fed., in a new pairs format"

    Is this like the kumite Frank Dux made famous?

    I dunno, seems like bad budo to me.

    Peter
    Peter Claussen

  11. #56
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    It's OK for you, Ireland ain't exactly too far from here...
    No seriously this does pong vaguely of 'Bad Budo' but if he likes it I suppose he's happy...and having a rotating Tenshin ShodAn Katori Shinto Ryu sign is just a touch of pure quality.
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  12. #57
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    As I posted on another thread the school has been very clear about what they think about various TSKSR groups:
    http://www.katorishintoryu.com/Engli...ments/new4.htm
    I know of other students who rigorously uphold their keppan.
    Doug Walker
    Completely cut off both heads,
    Let a single sword stand against the cold sky!

  13. #58
    MarkF Guest

    Default

    Hi, Peter,
    I don't know anything of significance of Japanese history except from about 1860 or so to today, and that is very limited in itself.

    But I believe TSKSR is considered the oldest *extant* ko ryu or at least it is said to be by those of certain organizations concerned with the study of ko ryu within the long history of Japan.

    As to this chap's typos, I wouldn't dare to even step lightly, as even if I were "grasshopper" I might just step in it. In such a case, though, with all the other unedited and proof read misapplications of almost everything stated, the Bu**shi* is piled mighty high.

    Signed,
    Grasshopper

  14. #59
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    Default Tenshin SHODAN Katori Shinto Ryu

    I have read articles about Balmer and his school in an COMBAT (An English MA rag.) It contained pictures of his group visiting Sugino Sensei (Senior) in Kawasaki, Japan and in N.I. The pictures were pretty weird. His group doing TSKSR kata and Ryukyu Kobudo at the same time.

    Anyone who does Iai with a Nunchaku around their neck must be knee deep in the spirit of the Bu**shi*!

    (Sorry Mark, couldn't help it! Lack of original material don't ye know!)


    Cead Meas

  15. #60
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    Steve,

    Bringing nunchaku to a sword fight? Is this a Japanese equivalent of the old "bringing a knife to a gun fight" admonition? Yikes! Does that mean that they are trying to somehow combine these styles? I have a sad yet funny picture in my mind of a Sai versus Naginata kata in my mind. I guess that's what happens when you fall asleep while watching Zena- Warrior Princess, though!
    Krzysztof M. Mathews
    http://www.firstgearterritories.com

    Every place around the world it seemed the same
    Can't hear the rhythm for the drums
    Everybody wants to look the other way
    When something wicked this way comes

    "Jeremiah Blues, Part 1"
    Sting-The Soul Cages

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