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Thread: KarateForum Etiquette

  1. #16
    arnie Guest

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    Hi all!
    For me personally the use of both english and japanese would double my chanses to understand the technique, as opposed to the use of only either one.
    Of course it can be difficult to be sure even if both are used, but I doubt I'm the only one here who would appreciate, and benefit from, the use of both!?
    If Jussi and Martin on the other hand were to post in their respective native languages, I would have no problems whatsoever to "get the point". But then again, there is a slight risk the rest of you would outvote me if I came up with such a suggestion :-)
    I wish you all good training between the debates!
    Ari Lappinen

  2. #17
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    Originally posted by arnie
    Hi all!
    For me personally the use of both english and japanese would double my chanses to understand the technique, as opposed to the use of only either one.
    Of course it can be difficult to be sure even if both are used, but I doubt I'm the only one here who would appreciate, and benefit from, the use of both!?
    If Jussi and Martin on the other hand were to post in their respective native languages, I would have no problems whatsoever to "get the point". But
    Naturaly I have no intention of starting to write posts in Swedish :-) what I intended to point out is that several of us who read ebudo do not have english as native tounge and english terms does not come naturaly to us. I generaly have no idea what the japanese terms I use would be in english standard terms (esp. as there is no such thing), and would have to first translate to swedish and then into english with a predictable "chinese whisper" effect.

    Nauraly if we cannot give a japanese/hogen/chinese term for something it is in english we should explain it.
    HOWEVER.

    In the original post by Sochin he stated
    ...and seldom is there just no way at all to translate a concept into English
    and promtly followed this with
    Therefore, all participants are asked to write in English with the foreign term for the art in parenthesis, if desired. Less acceptable will be the use of foreign language terms with the English in parenthesis.
    I could go along with always describing a term in english, but Personaly, I have no wish to make up a semi-understandable english terms as I go, whenever I post something. And if somone post without the japanese (or other) term included I might not know what they are talking about.

    Martin Hultgren

  3. #18
    red_fists Guest

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    Hi.

    I am not into karate per se, but the topic interests me as we got a similar problem on the Chinese MA Boards.

    There we normally use an "English Translation" of the chinese Movement names. But most of the Posters also know the Chinese names for them.
    But the Problem is that often the Movements have the same name but the
    execution can vary greatly between styles.

    So we found communiations difficulties when we tried to use terms like "Grasp Sparrow's Tail" as it differs slightly between styles. Also often styles have slightly different Names for the same movement:

    Yang Style: Creeping low like a Snake.
    Chen: Dragon sits on the Ground.
    Wu: Sparrow on the Ground.
    My Style: Panther sits down.

    Most of the times though by giving a quick rundown of the movement we can ascertain to which movement it correlates in our own systems.

    As for terms like "mae geri" I can understand that that or "front kick" alone will not do to describe a technic, as there can be many types of front kick and different areas of the foot to strike with.

    Anyhuh, just my 2 cents.

  4. #19
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    Umm...if there's nobody against my suggestion, I shall continue my habit to use japanese and english terms for techniques. Thing is, I don't know some english names - or at least two. So, if someone could be kind enough to help me here.

    Shiko-dachi. What is the translation? I don't think that it's good to translate it to "straddle stance", since kiba-dachi is something I've learned to call straddle stance (feet forwards and so on). However, in shiko-dachi feet and knees point outwards. So, is the stance name in english sumo-stance or what?

    Then again, when talking about two different kokutsu-dachi - other which is like nekoashi-dachi (cat stance) but a bit higher (okinawan version, shotokan does this like shikodachi, weight on back) is rather naturally a "back stance", but how about the other, which is like zenkutsu-dachi (front stance) in reversed form (like you'd be going backwards)? Reverse front stance? Reverse stance?

    I'd like to know those. As well as kake uke (wrist block? Grabbing block?) and some others. But those two do fine at first.


    Jussi Häkkinen

    Ah yes...when it comes to technique names generally, then english, japanese, german, swedish, finnish, norwegian, danish and some other languages would be rather OK for me. However, when talking about japanese/okinawan arts I rather use japanese/okinawan terms with english translations - if that's OK for all?

  5. #20
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    "...how about the other, which is like zenkutsu-dachi (front stance) in reversed form (like you'd be going backwards)? Reverse front stance? Reverse stance?"
    Jussi Häkkinen

    Hi Jussi

    We call the back leaning front stance a neo dachi but for the English, back leaning front stance does it for me.

    "However, when talking about japanese/okinawan arts I rather use japanese/okinawan terms with english translations - if that's OK for all?"
    Jussi Häkkinen

    Ok here.
    "Fear, not compassion, restrains the wicked."

  6. #21
    arnie Guest

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    No no Jussi, not OK, I must strongly insist that you to use swedish at all time, with optional finnish in parenthesis!
    (Just kidding)
    I was thinking about the stances; the use of sumo-stance for chiko-dachi would be about as english as to say "chiko-stance" IMHO.
    I agree about the use of straddle- or horse stance for kiba, but someone please help us with chiko-dachi!
    I'm a bit confused about the back- and cat-stance, though; I've thouht that "cat-stance" can be with back fot pointing either forward ("zenkutsu style") or backward ("chiko or kokutsu style").
    If this is correct, you could call them both cat-stance and use back-stance for kokutsu-dachi...and if it's not correct, please let me know, so I can get it right!
    Regards,
    Ari Lappinen

  7. #22
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    If this is correct, you could call them both cat-stance and use back-stance for kokutsu-dachi...and if it's not correct, please let me know, so I can get it right!
    Regards,
    Ari Lappinen


    I don't know about right or wrong but our kokutsa dachi (back stance) has our backfoot 90º to the front and the front foot stretched forward, while the nekoashi dach (cat stance) has the back foot at 45º while the front foot is just one foot's distance in front of the back foot with the heel raised as far up as it will go with the toes still touching.

    We don't use chiko dachi at all so I have no idea what sort of stance is implicated!
    "Fear, not compassion, restrains the wicked."

  8. #23
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    Shiko-dachi is a stance you see in the beginning of sumo-competition. If I recall correctly, it's called "jigotai-dachi" in judo. It's practically a straddle stance, but feet point outward, having a 90 degree (about) angle between each other.

    I've seen a name "sumo-stance" being used in many occasions. However, that isn't very clear.

    Arnie, must correct you here. The name really is shiko-dachi, with s. Meaning is a key here. =)


    About the back stance: I know that there are many versions. One of those is a shotokan's long back stance, other is that reversed front stance. Then comes the okinawa-stuff (at least in shorin-ryu styles usually) that is like a cat stance but not so deep. I've also seen some other versions.
    I believe I'll use a word "back stance" for those basic versions (maybe a "high cat stance" for okinawan one) and "reversed front stance" for that one which is familiar from kobudo and some styles.


    I've attached the picture of shiko-dachi. The stance can be used in many directions, so the upper body isn't so important now. The lower section is the one that counts now.
    Picture found from web, photographer Bill Bly, performer Shimabukuro Zenpo, current head of Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do

  9. #24
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    Talking Shiko Dachi

    OI!!!!!! (Hey!!!!!) {Is this what we are getting at }

    Hi I am Asia and I am a e-budoholic!


    Group: Hi Asia!!

    The first step is admitting you have a problem!


    Anyways,

    I was thinking about the stances; the use of sumo-stance for chiko-dachi would be about as english as to say "chiko-stance" IMHO
    Shiko dachi is best tranlated as "Sumo stance" since shiko is used for refering to sumo (ex Shikona meants a sumo wreselters stage name the shiko in shikona is the same kanji as in shiko dachi) The kanji that makes up Shiko are: Shi (the number four) Ko (thigh, crotch, yarn, strand) See how confusing/fun translating Japanese can be! It helps to have an understanding of Japanese culture to understand the language or else we would go around calling it "four crotch stance!!!"

    American instructor: Little Johnny your must work on you Four Croth stance!

    Onlooking parent with no idea of karate: WORK ON WHAT!?!?!?!?!
    LeTerian Bradley

    There are no excuses on the mat, in the cage, or on the battlefeild! Train wisely!

  10. #25
    arnie Guest

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    Asia,
    I didn't mean that sumo-stance wouldn't be correct, just that it wouldn't be english.
    But I must say I found your post not only amusing, but informative as well! That's really more than one can ask for,
    thanks!
    Ari Lappinen

  11. #26
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    Arigato (Thank You) Hey I am getting the hang of this!

    Hi Arnie,

    I wasn't trying to say you were wrong. You could say shiko stance I really wouldn't fault you for it I just was trying to point out that if you didn't know that the term shiko refers to sumo and you just looked up the kanji in a dictionary you can find your self with something as hilarious as "four crotch stance"
    LeTerian Bradley

    There are no excuses on the mat, in the cage, or on the battlefeild! Train wisely!

  12. #27
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    Originally posted by Jussi Häkkinen
    Rolls, I believe that your question was a bit out of the line and at least did feel a bit spiky.




    However, I feel a bit weak here too. I don't necessarily english names for techniques. So, I ask moderator a bit patience. Stances especially are a problem here for me. (I ask straight away: What is the english name for Shiko-dachi? Some use Straddle stance, but I feel that Kiba-dachi is a straddle stance. Would Shiko-dachi be Sumo-stance?).

    Reason for my incapability to express those lies in my backround: I'm finnish, living in Finland and have studied the arts using japanese or okinawan terms. English translations may then be a little awkward.


    Jussi
    I vote that from now on the stance known as Sanchin-dachi should be called "The Jerry Lewis stance"

    GEne Gabel

  13. #28
    Steve C Guest

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    I reckon that shiko dachi should be henceforth referred to as fat squatting wrestler stance

  14. #29
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    Default Shiko dachi

    Well in our dojo Shiko Dachi is generally referred to in english as "sumo stance" or "oh bugger!". The second term is more often used by newcomers once they realise how painful a good shiko dachi stance is! :-)

    Another point about the use of Japanese and English terms is spelling. I know how to pronouce the Japanese for a lot more techniques than i can spell it for! This might have something to do with the fact i can't spell in Engish, let alone Japanese! :-)

    For example, i know cat stance is Nekawashi Dachi, but i have no idea if that is spelt correctly, i just type it as i say it! I'm happy to add a Japanese translation (if i know it), but people have to tolerate my horrific spelling!
    Huw Larsen

    Number 1 member of the Default Collective of Misfits

  15. #30
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    For example, i know cat stance is Nekawashi Dachi, but i have no idea if that is spelt correctly, i just type it as i say it! I'm happy to add a Japanese translation (if i know it), but people have to tolerate my horrific spelling!
    Romanization is a good thing but not always accurate as we try to find letter combinations to match the sounds of the foreign language. With that said.

    The common romanized spelling is Neko (cat) ashi (leg) dachi (tachi, stand) Pronounced like (Neko ashee dach)
    LeTerian Bradley

    There are no excuses on the mat, in the cage, or on the battlefeild! Train wisely!

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