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Thread: No other like it

  1. #1
    yiyo Guest

    Default No other like it

    Kenkojuku karate-do shotokan

  2. #2
    Guest

    Default Huh???

    What's the difference betwwen this and other Shotokan schools of thought?
    Bryan Seer

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default

    Since it is its own branch of the style it has to have at least something unique...well, then the claim "no other like it" can be true if we really nitpick.

    However, I'd like to know what makes it so unique. Please, let some light into our darkness.

  4. #4
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default

    Kenkojuku Shotokan is the school of Tomosaburo Okano. It was founded in 1941. It has strong influence from Yoshitaka Funaloshi's training methods.

    JKa vs Kenkojuku
    Technique
    JKA's Back stance is long, rear foot points out to the side.
    Kenkojuku's Back stance is shorter and the rear foot is turned inward.

    Shuto-uke , Knife hand block.
    JkA. Lead arm is extended out and away from the body.
    kenkojuku's knife hand block the lead arm is tucked in close and the elbow postioned one fist away from the ribs.


    Training method.
    In general, the emphasis in Kenkojuku was not directed for point tournament fighting. So, the sparring was more of a contiouous flow without the constant resetting to see who tagged who first. In one school I attended, a night did not go by without some type of tai-sabaki drills. And, it wasn't the cooperation partner training of some schools. If you didn't sidestep fast enough, you were hit hard.


    Perhaps some of you remember Toyotaro Miyazaki. He was from Tomosaburo Okano's Kenkojuku school.
    Fred Hamilton also taught the method.

    Antonio Bustillo

  5. #5
    J.Fundora Guest

    Default

    Mr Bustilo

    You are 100% on you statement.

    Jose Fundora

  6. #6
    Guest

    Default Thanks for explaining...

    Yeah, it sounds like you are learning good Karate. Glad to see there are some modern practitioners of Japanese Karate that are training this way. Thanks for the explanation. Happy training!
    Bryan Seer

  7. #7
    hector gomez Guest

    Default

    Great basic foundation!

  8. #8
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default

    To Mr. R. Rousselet,

    Yes it should read Funakoshi.

    When describing Kenkojuku Shotokan, I used the examples of a basic stance and a basic block.

    1)The knife hand block or Shuto uke in Japanese.

    2)The back stance, or Kokutsu dachi.

    I said the Kenkojuku back stance was shorter and with the rear foot turned inward it is different than the JKA version back stance. You said I was describing a standard 'nekko ashi dachi.' Not so.
    Nekko ashi dachi is a 'cat stance' . I made no mention of it.

    In 'nekko ashi dachi' the feet are positioned approximately one foot length apart with the heel of the lead foot raised high off the ground and it has little resemblance of a JkA or kenkojuku back stance.


    I don't think that the original post was worried about what is pure Shotokan. I don't think there is such a thing.

    Nonetheless, an un-JkA-ed version of Shotokan. Indeed.


    Antonio Bustillo
    www.Steadytraining.com

  9. #9
    yiyo Guest

    Default

    Yes, its good karate-do, not pure shotokan. After having visited and trained with others you can appreciate the basic foundations that Kenkojuku preached. As Mr. Hector Gomez clearly decribes it, as "great basic foundation". Analyzing and having talked to other Kenkojuku karatekas, I see the distinction and success that they have had in the martial arts.
    Mr. Bustillo brings up a couple of good points and variations on Kenkojuku vs. JKA. I feel that we all look back at those GOOD basics that were instilled upon us, at one time or another, and realize how fortunate were to be able to have had learned it this way. I bring this up because I'm sure that we have all fiddled with other types of martial arts (judo, BJJ, kickboxing, MB, etc) and those basics has made us better.

  10. #10
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default

    Robert Rousseleot,


    No problem.
    I had no doubt you knew the differences. I elaborated on what I meant about the 'Back stance' for the sake of the other readers to make sure no one else made quick assumptions.


    And, I must agree with you. You stated that there isn't much difference between the Shotokan groups. When we look around at some of the other arts that claim they are so different from similiar arts. Prime example, the pressure point techniques of George Dillman and the Oyata group. I don't see soooo much difference. Therefore, I agree with you.

    Antonio Bustillo
    www.SteadyTraining.com

  11. #11
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default

    Robert Rousselot,

    No need for us to go in another direction now. Remember, this thread is on Kenkojuku.

    Kenkojuku shotokan is a style of karate that I, at one time, practiced. It was a style I studied for 10 years. Therefore, a style of karate I can comment on with some authority. Did you study kenkojuku for 10 yeras.?
    When I mentioned Dillman and Oyata, I simply made the same generalization you did about Shotokan groups.

    I don't practice the pressure point stuff. Thus, I admit my view of it has as much worth as your assumptions of Kenkojuku.

    Getting back to the topic.

    I am interested to hear other peoples perspective on Tomosaburo Okano. Firsthand accounts please.
    For example; when he visited the US, memorable experiences you had with him and what impressed you the most about the founder of kenlojuku.

    Anything on current and former instructors who trained in Kenkojuku would be interesting.


    Antonio Bustillo
    www.SteadyTraining.com
    Last edited by Bustillo, A.; 30th September 2001 at 14:24.

  12. #12
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default

    Robert R.

    No malice intended, I know you have firsthand knowledge of the names I mentioned. I used them an as analogy...it was just an example. No meed to make a case of it.

    And, there is one thing I forgot to clear up. On one of your previous messages you reaffirmed the name Funakoshi --I had made a typo, Instead of an k' there was an 'l'--

    Nevertheless, I was referring to Gichin's son, Yoshitaka. aka Gigo.

    Again, you gotta throw that bit in there that you are in japan.
    Wonderful.

    But, Robert, seeing, talking, theorizing, and actually doing are worlds apart. No matter where you live.

    In most parts of the world, firsthand experience usaually counts just a little tiny bit more'.

    A. Bustillo
    Last edited by Bustillo, A.; 30th September 2001 at 15:09.

  13. #13
    hector gomez Guest

    Default

    ROBERT

    I know you like to stick to the facts,But IMHO,and everyone
    else on this planet, ernesto hoost or peter aerts would probably
    win any 4lb metal helmet contact tournament in the world,using
    the so called martial sport techniques that you despise so much.

    Since you know everyone in japan ,looking them up should be no
    problem.

    YIYO
    Excellent thread, I remember master okano visiting south fla in the summer
    of 78,he gave an excellent demonstration on kata and iado.

    toyotaro miyazaki was another excellent instructor and competitor
    who impressed me with his excellent speed and technique.

    Hector Gomez
    Last edited by hector gomez; 30th September 2001 at 17:06.

  14. #14
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default

    Robert Rousselot,

    It is obvious that it is not me who is getting upset. I have commented by giving examples. Apparently, somewhere along the line I struck a nerve, or pressure point, on you. I have not thrown personal insults. On the other hand you have called me a troll twice. The first, I ignored.
    I see you go all over this forum and state your opinion on everything. I don't. On this thread you made a couple of generalizations.

    Futhermore, you made a comment alluding to the fact that you can make authoritive statements on a particular topic because you live Japan.
    There are Japanese who live in the US. I don't care how long a Japanese lived here, and even if they studied at a proffesional cooking school, I wouldn't automatically use their recipe for grits, meatloaf, apple pie or fried chicken. Even if it was the 'Iron Chef. Capiche?
    Listen Robert, I live in Florida. Your are not impressed. I don't blame you. You live in Japan. So what. We're even. Shall we move on.

    Now, again, back to the topic...
    You asked about mawashi geri and Yoshitaka. I heard the same thing.

    The original title of this thread, '...No other like it...'
    Hector mentioned Toyotaro Miyazaki who was a student of Okano. Miyazaki is a recognized figure because he tested his skills against the top men in the US during the late 60's, early 70's, and then again during the 80's. And , he was successful.
    To date, few Japanese instructors from traditional Shotokan have been so versatile.

    A. Bustillo

  15. #15
    hector gomez Guest

    Default

    KENKOJUKO BEACH TRAINING

    Back in the mid 70s Mr.sugimoto use to organize beach training
    for all kenkojuko branch schools in miami.
    This was usually done once a year at a beach called virginia beach,
    at the time it had a reputation for being called lovers beach ,among others things,because of its seclusion compared to other heavy populated beaches,this was perfect for training,when we showed
    up at the beach, all wearing our karate uniforms ,I remember
    the strange stares, among the beachgoers,most were probably
    just curious as to what so many people dressed up in white
    pajamas ,were doing so early in the morning at the beach.

    This was really a lot of fun,because aside from the interschool tournaments, it was a time of the year ,when all branch schools
    got together ,and had a great workout with a lot of friends.

    the morning workouts would begin with usual warmups followed
    by basics ,and kata,there was something about training in the sand,
    and being close to nature, that was special and exilirating.

    Kumite or one step sparring was usualy done in the water with
    both persons facing each other in knee to thigh high water,this
    would make kicking and moving just a little more interesting.

    the best was definitly left for the end ,Mr. sugimoto would line us up
    by teams,then he would proceed to hang cantelopes from trees
    suspended by ropes in front of each team.the object of the game
    was to hit the cantelope blindfolded as your team instructed you
    were it was.

    To this day i value the experience of training outdoors and being
    close to nature ,as a way of changing the usual routine and adding
    a little excitment to my workouts.


    PS.Be easy on me guys ,i just felt compelled to tell my little story
    and no i dont train in my white gi on the beach anymore.

    Hector Gomez
    Last edited by hector gomez; 1st October 2001 at 16:20.

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