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View Poll Results: Can you kill a human being if needed?

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  • Yes

    193 89.35%
  • No

    23 10.65%
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Thread: Can you Kill?

  1. #241
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    I'm glad I'm not the only one Russ- I used to have a student at Nova [damn good English speaker but as right wing as they come] who used to always bring up the A bomb and how bad the allies were and how it was a war crime. We weren't supposed to even mention the war in the conversation room but it always turned to it when he was there. One day I just asked him if he'd ever seen the state of allied POW's held by the Japanese. he just stopped dead [he obviously had]. I just said that that and the casualties incurred in the pacific campaign had removed any sympathy the allies might have had for the civil population on Japan. however the 'Culture" rule still applied to bombing- Nara and Kyoto were specifically excluded. Funnily enough he stopped raving but occasionally he'd be in denial over Nanking, Singapore etc..............
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  2. #242
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    Part of it may be due to massive miseducation. My mom used to work at Sumitomo Bank in NYC, and it was amazing how much they didn't know. Apparently the Japanese who were being rotated to Western branches, particularly US, were sat down and told about WWII, that we all knew about it, and to be very careful. My mom actually mentioned WWII once, (during an argument over how traditional turkey was, he didn't think that they had T-day turkey 50 yrs ago, and she said "No, in those days we were sending them to the soldiers on the front.") causing her superior to turn and almost run away! Others of the Japanese knew that they had gotten bombed, but not why! And then there was the Fed audit on V-J day, which caused all of the senior Americans to grin, and none of the Japanese, many of whom were born shortly after the war( just like my mom) got it at all. (The Americans all went off and found private corners to laugh in, because they couldn't look each other in the face until they had had a nice laugh...)
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

  3. #243
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    Default ...yes...?

    Ok, I'm replying to this old old thread, so I'm sure no one will read this. But, the question seriously challenged me, and I need to sort out my thoughts on the subject. I found myself strangely reluctant to even answer the poll question, partly because the answer seems obvious. I think almost everyone who studies a martial art is prepared to go to the gravest extreme to defend themselves and their loved ones. That is why they (I) make the commitment in the first place. Just a word on my own background; I'm new to martial arts. I have been studying for about two months, total. So this post is sort of just my way of coming to terms with my own philosophy. Every so often my sensei goes back to a familiar theme during training, one which I'm sure many here are familiar with. It goes something like this, "do the least damage necessary to end the conflict." On the surface, this seems to directly contradict the premise of the question posed at the beginning of this thread. So I needed to delve deeper. What are the circumstances under which I would find it necessary to take another life? To me, the operative word is "necessary." This reminds me of a video I saw online on the "justifiable use of lethal force"." It was a seminar given by Massad Ayoob to a group of concealed handgun license holders. Incidentally, I've been licensed to carry a handgun for years, whereas I have just recently begun studying martial arts. However, the concept seems to translate. Mr. Ayoob stated that lethal force is justified under the principles of "disparity of force," which basically means that you have found yourself in a situation where you are clearly outmatched or outnumbered, and the other party (or parties) have manifested intent to kill or commit grave bodily injury. Under these circumstances lethal force is legally (and morally) justified. The part that gets me is the idea of "disparity of force" with respect to the martial arts world. As I become more proficient, it seems that this is a situation that will become more and more unlikely. As I become more skilled, the probability will decrease that I will encounter someone who is far above my skill level. But, what if I were to be attacked by someone who is clearly much more skilled than myself? What would I do? If I were carrying a gun, I would attempt (if the situation permitted) to show my willingness to use it, and hopefully this would end the conflict. Still, anyone who makes the decision to carry a firearm must also come to terms with the possibility of being forced to pull the trigger. I think the same commitment is required of someone who chooses to train in a martial art. However, there is a difference. There are degrees of force available to a trained martial artist, that are not available to someone who is only licensed to carry a gun. Take a one-on-one conflict, for instance. I personally think that what I would do, is try to instantly assess the skill level of my opponent (erring on the side of caution), and compare it to my own. This would dictate my response. Again, "do the least harm necessary to end the conflict." Since at this particular time I'm relatively inexperienced, that seems to give me more freedom to apply more force in response. But as my skill level increases, I will have more options to end a conflict in a non-lethal way. And what exactly is the situation where I can see myself taking another human life? I think it would only be in the situation where I am outmatched and/or outnumbered. I think it would be only in the situation where my training level did not yet give me the ability to drive away my attackers with a non-lethal response. It seems to me that the farther my training progresses, the less likely that situation will become. I hope this is the case. I'm also not blind to the fact that I'm pondering a moral judgment that, should the day come, could have to be made in the blink of an eye. All the more reason for me to think it through now. So I think my answer to the poll is "yes". I am committed to using lethal force, if that is the only option available to me. I came to terms with that when I chose to apply for a concealed handgun license. I hope that my training will offer me the increasing ability to assess my attacker(s), to use non-lethal force where possible, and make the possibility that I will need to kill, a more remote one. I will say this, there may be a tendency for some to fantasize about their own lethal powers. I think a more noble pursuit would be to sacrifice, and train, and push yourself harder every day, in order to making killing a more remote possibility. And thank you for the question. I do think a possibly more probing question would be, "would you kill?"Daniel Smith
    Last edited by Seito-K; 14th May 2014 at 16:08. Reason: signature

  4. #244
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    Daniel

    I think....IMO...that taking the time to really think the question through....as you clearly have. Is a very good thing.

    I think the "fantasy" element you mention is a real stumbling block for some folk in their training.
    Chris Thomas

    "While people are entitled to their illusions, they are not entitled to a limitless enjoyment of them and they are not entitled to impose them upon others."

    "Team Cynicism" MVP 2005-2006
    Currently on "Injured/Reserve" list due to a scathing Sarcasm pile-up.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seito-K View Post
    I think almost everyone who studies a martial art is prepared to go to the gravest extreme to defend themselves and their loved ones. That is why they (I) make the commitment in the first place.
    People study martial arts for lots of reasons. For some reason, many people who study primarily for self-defence can't understand that there are other reasons.
    Neil Gendzwill
    Saskatoon Kendo Club

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by gendzwil View Post
    People study martial arts for lots of reasons. For some reason, many people who study primarily for self-defence can't understand that there are other reasons.
    Indeed - while Kendo / Jodo / Iaido, the arts of the Kendo Federation come from historical methods of combat, post WWII they are almost entirely disconnected from actual modern combatatives as currently propagated... so many / most of our members dont think of it as being related to self defence. Instead they do karate / judo / mma for that side of things.
    Aden Steinke
    University of Wollongong Kendo club
    http://www.kendo-wollongong.com/

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by gendzwil View Post
    People study martial arts for lots of reasons. For some reason, many people who study primarily for self-defence can't understand that there are other reasons.
    Heh - more and more I can't understand why someone would study a martial art primarily for self defense!
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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