Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 88

Thread: Kaze Arashi-ryu (Henri-Robert Vilaire)

  1. #1
    taino1 Guest

    Default Kaze Arashi-ryu (Henri-Robert Vilaire)

    Hello,

    I'm wondering if anyone has any information regarding the "Kaze Arashi Ryu" style of Aikijujutsu? Also, if there are any practitioners of this style on this forum that could comment, I would greatly appreciate any insights and information regarding this style..

    Thanks in advance...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Asia
    Posts
    124
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    http://www.kazearashiryu.org/

    http://www.kar.telinco.co.uk/

    I dont practice this school so I cannot give any further information.
    Michael Becker

  3. #3
    taino1 Guest

    Default

    Michael,

    Thanks very much.. I browse through the links...

    Thanks again...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Columbia, Missouri
    Posts
    513
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    I brought this style up in this forum once and was told that it would be very difficult to consider this an authentic "aikijujutsu" style. Apparently there were some liberties taken with the lineage...
    SPC Jason C. Diederich, MOARNG
    FEMAS, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, Kali-Silat
    www.geocities.com/shaolinninjamarine

  5. #5
    Mark Raugas Guest

    Exclamation

    Might I enquire as to what liberties?

    I'm sure I would have responded to an assertion like that, had it been made publicly, as I used to moderate this forum, and have tried to be current in reading its topics since Nathan took over. If someone did make an assertion to you about Kaze Arashi Ryu, in private, I would appreciate that you repeat it publicly, including its source, so it may be addressed.

    If you do not feel comfortable doing so, or confident doing so, then I might question the responsibility of the vagueness your response above. In short, please be concrete and specific.

    Also, please feel free to air any questions you might have. We have tried to be as thorough as possible in the presentation on our website (www.kazearashiryu.org). If anything is genuinely unclear, I can make an attempt to have it clarified.

    Sincerely,
    Mark Raugas

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Columbia, Missouri
    Posts
    513
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    It was almost a year ago, in a thread asking "how many kinds of aiki there were" (basically). I was told that neither hapkido nor KAR had historical evidence to show that they were linked to Daito-ryu, and thus could not be considered aiki.
    It may have simply been a purist; I was not really interested enough at the time to press the matter. I would be quite happy to find out that such an assertion was incorrect!
    SPC Jason C. Diederich, MOARNG
    FEMAS, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, Kali-Silat
    www.geocities.com/shaolinninjamarine

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    108
    Likes (received)
    7

    Default

    This might just be the thread in question:

    http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/show...=&threadid=480

  8. #8
    Mark Raugas Guest

    Default

    I remember. That was when a bunch of people were arguing about what "aiki" was, and some maintained only Daito Ryu was the only system with "aiki." The famous "sorewa aiki ja nai jidai" of 1999.

    The word aiki has been around forever, and the use aikijujutsu wasn't even coined by Takeda, it was coined by Onsaburo Deguchi. One of our headmasters liked the phrase and adopted it; currently, we're thinking of dropping it, and returning to the name we used previously, because the quality of a large proportion of the groups around using that word to describe their practice is largely, to be frank, garbage.

    Kaze Arashi Ryu does not come from Daito Ryu. That does not mean it has "taken liberties" of any sort. If anything, Daito Ryu has taken many liberties by claiming it is something more than simply Sokaku Takeda's creation. I've grown sick and tired of people speaking of their system as if it were the only ryuha practiced in northern Japan, when it wasn't even in existence before the Meiji era. Just because Takeda taught too many people, and now their organization is having quality control problems, and problems controlling people using the Daito Ryu name, is no reason to defame third parties. On the other hand, when you teach thousands of people, how can you expect to keep things under control?

    While I've had the chance to see some good Daito Ryu, and enjoyed it, I've also seen some real garbage using the same name. I personally think the empty hand arts of Kaze Arashi Ryu are much more effective than any of the (both good and bad) Daito Ryu I've seen. If I felt differently, I wouldn't continue to practice them.


    Sincerely,
    Mark

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Columbia, Missouri
    Posts
    513
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Interesting...

    Points well taken about Daito ryu!

    By the way, the thread posted by Mr. Smith is indeed the thread I recall, although several posts were added that I never saw... Including apologies for questioning authenticity.
    Last edited by yamatodamashii; 17th April 2001 at 22:13.
    SPC Jason C. Diederich, MOARNG
    FEMAS, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, Kali-Silat
    www.geocities.com/shaolinninjamarine

  10. #10
    Hitotsu-no-tachi Guest

    Default

    Mr. Raugas,

    I must admit, I'm a bit confused now. So Kaze Arashi Ryu isn't based on Daito-ryu? I thought Henri-Robert Vilaire clearly stated that it descended from Daito-ryu on the "Aikigoshindo" Bushidokai video from the mid 80's? At this time, he was a menkyo kaiden in the ryu.

    I also checked out your website. I noticed there isn't a listing for Kaze Arashi Ryu's hombu dojo. Does Nishiyama Akemi shihan teach or is there any way to contact her regarding the history of the ryu??

    Thank you for your time and patience.

    Sincerely,

    Andrew Bryant
    Last edited by Hitotsu-no-tachi; 18th April 2001 at 10:47.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    108
    Likes (received)
    7

    Default

    Hi Andrew,

    please note this forum's rules, stated at the bottom of the page:

    Please sign your posts with your full name.
    Profanity will not be tolerated.
    Blatant commercial advertising is not allowed.
    Treat your fellow E-Budo members with respect.

  12. #12
    Mark Raugas Guest

    Default

    Please do use your full name, we all extend you that courtesy. Regardless, the short answer to your question is: nope. The long answer begins with a question: are you sure you are remembering correctly?

    In personal conversations with Vilaire Sensei, I've been told on more than one occasion, that our system is not derived from Daito Ryu. Having become one of his long term students, I made an effort to stress that publicly on our website. Our system existed previously under the name Yama Arashi Ryu; in addition, the four previous headmasters are listed there, if you are interested.

    Now, there is an (now extinct) system called Daido Ryu, which you may or may not be familiar with, taught in the Aizu area, which had in the past, connections with (and there existing influences between it and) our system. Another example of a sister tradition, if you would, is Gassan Ryu, which was practiced at Dewa Sanzan. There was influence between groups there as well. This is all before the end of the Edo period, however.

    There were practitioners of our system who did teach the Sakai and the Aizu as military advisors. Nishiyama Shiro is one example. Conceivably some of our teachings may have been incorporated into what became later disseminated under the name of oshikiuchi in the Aizu han, if that was indeed a martial art. Nishiyama Shiro did know Saigo Tanomo, while Saigo was retired as a priest. Conceivably some of the same Aizu han oshikiuchi may have influenced Takeda in his formation of Daito Ryu, may have influenced Nishiyama's practice of Yama Arashi Ryu. If indeed Saigo was a teacher of Takeda, and if he indeed disseminated oshikiuchi. There is some doubt on those issues, raised in Pranin's book on Daito Ryu. How much of an influence or relation persisted to this day, in the example of Daito Ryu, is simply too ill-posed a question to answer. As such, we do not make claims to any relation. If you look at the two arts, there are many more differences than similarities.

    To this day, the only system members which teach at public dojo are students of Henri-Robert Vilaire. Any contact with outsiders has fallen to be the responsibility of qualified people in his branch of the system. I've taken on the responsibility of attempting to provide some representation on the internet, for better or worse, it eating up a bit of time. However, Nishiyama Akemi Shinan does not have a public dojo, and we do not give out her home address to curious strangers. That would be quite rude. I would prefer some sort of introduction even before putting someone in contact with my direct instructor, let alone with the head of the system I practice, or any other of its licensed teachers. They are all very busy people.

    One thing to consider in passing. I consider myself very lucky to have stumbled on a small school in New York City that taught the arts I would later learn. For years, if it existed with eight or ten active students, that was a lot. The only reason different schools exist now is that some people have moved, and wish to continue their practice. They are all very small; most have trouble just renting space to practice. If I was told there were one hundred currently active practicing members, at all our public schools combined, I would be quite surprised. Not many people have the patience and dilligence to learn what we have to offer.

    If Nishiyama Akihiro had not given Vilaire sensei permission to teach publicly, there would have been nothing available to the public. Now, it is nice to make an attempt to, and as an academic I find it of some interest to, provide the public with some knowledge of what it is that we do, being that I find it of a high quality, providing a window on classical martial teachings. However, I don't have the responsibility to sate people's curiosity, for curiosity's sake.

    It was a very lucky occurance that our system did not die out when Nishiyama Akihiro was left as its only menkyo-kaiden after the Second World War; mine and others' responsibility is to see that it continue in small, qualified, numbers. People who walk into my dojo looking to train will not be aware of it, but they are quite lucky that we accept strangers. However, with that level of openess comes a limit on the information we see fit to presenting to the uninitiated. People who don't enjoy that are free to ignore us as they see fit; it is their loss, not ours.

    I realize this isn't a very pleasant attitude to maintain, but what we practice is not about being pleasant and nice. It is too precious a thing to risk handling in so casual a manner. I think most people who train in classical traditions, and view their practice seriously, can understand that point of view.

    Best,
    Mark Raugas

  13. #13
    Hitotsu-no-tachi Guest

    Default

    Mr. Raugas (and all),

    First, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Secondly, yes he distinctly said "Daito-ryu" when Tony A. introduced him, Don Angier and Roland M. and ask them to give the influences of their arts. I reviewed it again last night to be sure. Regardless, I just noted your statement above that Kaze Arashi Ryu was not related to Daito-ryu and remembered Mr. Vilaire's statement to the contrary. Perhaps he was uncertain himself, at the time?

    I certainly understand your point of view about limiting information to the uninitiated, but I'm sure you understand people's continued skepticism when the only historical information available are names on a website that could have come from anywhere (I'm sure they didn't in Kaze Arashi Ryu's case, however). I can't think of any authentic koryu that can't be independently verified in some fashion.

    Regardless, I would think you'd encourage research and skepticism when we live in a time where anyone can throw a few Japanese names up and create a little story to add history to their dubious "koryu." Case in point, Senso-ryu (although I see now that he states he founded the ryu and not inherited it.... Humm, amnesia I suppose).

    Again, thank you for the information. You've provided a lot of answers regarding the history of Kaze Arashi Ryu.

    Take care,

    Andrew Bryant

  14. #14
    Mark Raugas Guest

    Exclamation

    Thank you very much for your input, and I appreciate your response. I would suggest, to those who have only heard of our name, and are curious, or have only briefly seen pieces of our system on a tape of some sort, that the most prolific way of understanding the similarities and differences between our system and Daito Ryu, is to experience it physically. We have a number of schools in Europe and the Middle East, as well as in the United States. I personally am available and accesible to discuss the finer parts of our art with serious interested parties, for those who wish a demonstration. You will see the effectivess of our art, and the clear depth of our practice.

    Thank you,
    Mark Raugas

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    275
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Originally posted by Mark Raugas
    I would suggest, to those who have only heard of our name, and are curious, or have only briefly seen pieces of our system on a tape of some sort, that the most prolific way of understanding the similarities and differences between our system and Daito Ryu, is to experience it physically....You will see the effectivess of our art, and the clear depth of our practice.
    Mr. Raugas,

    With respect, I think the issue that seems to be arising is one of legitimacy (i.e., historical provenance), not one of "effectiveness." I'd like to cite Dave Lowry's article in this regard, which can be read here: http://www.furyu.com/wayne/Dave%27sF/Confess.html

    But since you bring it up, I have to say that after watching some demos and taking a look at the website, there are marked differences between your school and most other koryu bujutsu that I've ever seen demonstrated,...differences which MAY lead one to believe that Kaze Arashi Ryu can't be compared to or maybe even categorized with the majority of koryu.

    I apologize if this observation rankles. I have to imagine you've heard it before, and are probably tired of addressing it. Please don't take it as a criticism; "different" doesn't mean better or worse or not koryu. It's just different.

    However, if there is some evidence (other than physical technique) independent of the Ryu's claims, I'm sure many would appreciate the opportunity to view it.

    Respectfully,

    Eric Baluja

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Nine Ryu-ha of the Bujinkan - are they legitimate?
    By Joachim in forum Koryu Forum Message Archive
    Replies: 389
    Last Post: 23rd November 2011, 11:20
  2. Ogawa-ryu Aikijujutsu / Ogawa Manabo
    By Shama_Grier in forum Aikijujutsu
    Replies: 94
    Last Post: 18th August 2007, 00:31
  3. all the existing ninjutsu styles compared
    By brendan V Lanza in forum Ninpo and Ninjutsu
    Replies: 128
    Last Post: 16th October 2005, 14:39

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •