"What is Aiki" thread

[Izzyzx]

Aiki – this is the mystery we American pay hundreds of dollars to the Japanese to have them teach us (and they rarely do) but its not so mysterious.

It has to do with creating an advantage by taking your attacker’s balance or center. The moment you perceive an attack -- you attack first. In Judo they call it Kuzushi , Kempo its called Kiai and AJJ and Kendo it referred to as taking the attacker’s center.

Next time someone grabs your wrists move him/her quickly and powerfully off center (a vector transfer – force and direction). And as a spider or a snake darts its fangs, perform your techniques as quickly as the cobra’s strike and you have added Aiki to your Jujutsu...

But just as a takes years to master Kote Gaeshi so does take to understand Aiki.

Israel Gelpi

[Cady Goldfield]

Why should it take years, unless you're slow, or your teacher ain't showing you stuff? Are you studying it?

[Izzyzx]

Why should it take years, unless you're slow, or your teacher ain't showing you stuff? Are you studying it?

If you have perfected Kote Gaeshi why do you still continue to practice it? No I’m slow but perfection takes a life time… I don’t know you and you don’t know me but our introduction to each other started with an insult… therefore you have made an enemy of me.

I am peaceful man, but you have chosen to agitate me…

[Cady Goldfield]

Oh my. Just keep training.

[aikihazen]

Aiki – this is the mystery we American pay hundreds of dollars to the Japanese to have them teach us (and they rarely do) but its not so mysterious.

It has to do with creating an advantage by taking your attacker’s balance or center. The moment you perceive an attack -- you attack first. In Judo they call it Kuzushi , Kempo its called Kiai and AJJ and Kendo it referred to as taking the attacker’s center.

Next time someone grabs your wrists move him/her quickly and powerfully off center (a vector transfer – force and direction). And as a spider or a snake darts its fangs, perform your techniques as quickly as the cobra’s strike and you have added Aiki to your Jujutsu...

But just as a takes years to master Kote Gaeshi so does take to understand Aiki.

When you can practice "Kuzushi" (we call it Irimi) without someone "grabbing your wrist" first then perhaps understanding Aiki in a technique like Kote Gaeshi will become much easier.

Aiki should not be a mystery... It is the natural result of good practice.

My "Japanese Masters" had no problem teaching it to anyone without charging allot of money for it. Because to them (and to me) Aiki is to be shared with all those who seek it as a method of restoring harmony to any conflict.

William Hazen

[Juan Perez]

… therefore you have made an enemy of me.

I am peaceful man, but you have chosen to agitate me…

Dude, how old are you?

Honestly, I'm a big fan of Ibarra and all but, if you are his student, you represent him better by just training in the dojo and laying off the internet for a while. (Gosh, I really hope I don't make an "enemy" of him, or "agitate" him.)

[George Kohler]

Izzyzx has been banned.

[glad2bhere]

Does that mean that the discussion of the original question needs to stop?

The reason that I ask is over on HAPKIDO FORUM we had a pretty decent discussion of a comparison of yu-sool and hapkiyusool and there were some interesting comments made about the nature of "ai-ki" in distinguishing between these two levels of Hapkido. Some folks were quite sure that these are actually two separate arts under the Hapkido banner and others were quite sure that both practices produced Hapkido by effectively merging together.
The characterization of "ai-ki" seemed to be one distinction but varied as to what position a person took on the larger topic.

For my part, I have identified at least three major takes on what constitutes "ai-ki" and wouldn't mind continuing if other were up for it. If not, maybe we'll miss a chance at a decent discussion, yes? Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[glad2bhere]

Honestly, I would like to pursue this as there are many fascinating aspects to the topic. The original thread over on the other forum went for 9 pages and side-tracked more than a few times. Its a bit of a challenge to capture the core positions and still do the discussion justice. OTOH, if people would like to continue this particular discussion, though on another thread, I can simply take the three aspects I singled-out there and we might just begin with that, as Ron suggested. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Mark Murray]

Honestly, I would like to pursue this as there are many fascinating aspects to the topic. The original thread over on the other forum went for 9 pages and side-tracked more than a few times. Its a bit of a challenge to capture the core positions and still do the discussion justice. OTOH, if people would like to continue this particular discussion, though on another thread, I can simply take the three aspects I singled-out there and we might just begin with that, as Ron suggested. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Can your three aspects carry over to any martial art? I guess in a larger question, does aiki mean the same thing in other arts or are there multiple aiki?

Start a new thread with your three aspects. Or continue it here. If nothing else, it'll give us something to talk about.

Mark

[Nathan Scott]

[Post deleted by user]

[glad2bhere]

Dear Folks:

As suggested by participants on another thread I thought I would open this thread and pursue my line of questioning regarding the nature of "ai-ki" as it relates to Japaese traditions as well as Korean traditions.

In doing my research I have found that it is quite common for Koreans to simply transliterate Japanese Kan-ji to Korean Han-ja as though the transition from one culture to another matters not at all. The issue that I have is that while such a practice may be convenient, it is far from accurate when things come to the matter of actual practice. I think the nature of "ai-ki" is one such situation. To date I have found at least four aspects from which the concept of "ai-ki" can be viewed between tese two cultures.

1.) Donn Draeger in his martial arts trilogy on Japanese traditions ascribes the development of the concept of "ai-ki" to a Neo-Confucian scholar of the 18th Century. In this sense, "ai-ki" would seem to represent an early Philosophical parameter regarding the nature and application of certain practices from the standpoint social welfare.

2.) Exampined in another light, Draeger also is found to characterize "ai-ki" as essentially the reactive or responsive counter-part to "ki-ai". In this case, "ki-ai" is a more pro-active, perhaps even pre-emptive approach to a combat situation.

3.) As mentioned earlier, I have found significant discrepancies in simply transliterating Japanese constructs to Korean. One such situation arises from simply identifying Korean "hapki" as the Korean reading for Japanese "ai-ki". While linguistically a case can be made for this, from the standpoint of practical application there is some disconnect. While "hapki" and "ai-ki" can be found to use the same Han-ja, there is a school of thought that "hap" while being interpreted as "coordinated" can also mean "universal" in the catholic sense. In this way a wide spectrum of practices could be found to share a particular approach to "managing power" including sword, spear, unarmed combat, staff and stick. In this manner, a definition of "ai-ki" would have more to do with the technical skill of an individual to anticipate and therefore a lead a person using that individuals own habituated responses to a given condition.

4.) Lastly, there is a kind of quasi-religious take on "ai-ki" in which the expression of "Ki" is developed, lead, influenced, curtailed or otherwise manipulated in ways not readily apparent or even easily defined.

Having said all of this may I add that in studying the practice of Hyung (J. "Kata") I have found that not a few strong disagreements have arisen from the fact that "form" does not mean the same to everyone, even witin a given practice. I submitt that we often experience the same thing with the topic of "ai-ki". Still I would be very intersted to hear the take of fellow practitioners on the subject and will do my best to represent as much of the Korean view on the subject as knowledge and skill allow.

Oh, and Happy New Year!!!

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Nathan Scott]

[Post deleted by user]

[glad2bhere]

Thanks, Nathan:

Glad to see that there continue to be those who fight the good fight against the minions of the Prince of Darkness (here insert "aka" of your choice).

For my part I am afraid I am marginalized from mainstream discussion since I do not subscribe to most of the cosmic reflection that passes for explanation in most venues. For myself the querie was essentially one of clarification.

I must report that my research reveals that somewhere just prior to 1970 there was a quantum shift in the perceptive capabilities of most Hapkido organizations and not a few practitioners. Some neuro-muscular affliction of cultural origins atttacked the intellectual properties of Hapkido leadership and left them incapable of expression save for that material of Japanese origin. For that moment forward, the lion's share of constructs and concepts as related to Korean traditions were essentially Japanese material repackaged as Korean practices. No small amount of this was due to the designs of MYONG Jae Nam to align closelt with the Japanese Aikido community. However, Japanese culture could not have enjoyed its success in surplanting Korean Martial Traditions were it not for the betrayal of the Korean language by post WW II linguists whose sloth permitted them to reconstruct modern Korean language by simply transliterating Japanese Kanji.

My purpose in submitting my question was the hope that I might have intelligent discourse with like-minded folk sans the cult-like positions (See: "What the bleep do we know") which seem to cloud examination of the subject. If you had in mind some resources who might enjoy such dicussion, I would truely appreciate being "hooked-up", as it were.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Cady Goldfield]

Bruce,
Since you're so fascinated by and curious about "aiki" in the aikijujutsu sense (since you post on the aikijujutsu forum, I'm assuming that it is that "aiki" that you are interested in), why don't you look into some of the seminars and classes being offered by aikijujutsu proponents?

Howard Popkin has posted upcoming Roppokai seminars with Okomoto Sensei, on several forums and websites. Why not look into that, and start there? More questions are answered on the mats than in writing.