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Thread: Kaze Arashi-ryu (Henri-Robert Vilaire)

  1. #76
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Brently

    Gee......what is it the holiday spirit or something? Everyone is agreeing with everyone.....I for one will enjoy it while it lasts-
    Merry Christmas Bud May his spirit shine through you throughout the year
    After that Bugei thread; if Toby comes back and agrees I'm gonna fall over and faint.


    **********

    Mark

    Thanks...but we're all still learning neh? I just don't like being downright offensive.
    Over fifty?
    Hey I got trees younger then you...and I hear tell the bark is smoother too.......hah!

    In truth, I think I'm only 7 years or so behind you. Old judo guys will still rock and roll you though
    won't they? Walker and all



    Dan
    "We now return you to your regularly scheduled Autocad desktop"

    GET BACK TO WORK you miscreant!!

  2. #77
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    O.K., so to summarize where we're at:

    Mr. Raugus offered us a thoughtfull reply to the questions we asked. Mr. Baluja then went to the effort of going point by point and comparing this response to articles by Dave Lowry in which he illustrates typical characteristics and behavior of arts/individuals that lay unsupported claims to their art's historical lineage.

    Interesting exchange.

    As far as the current information we have on KAR:

    1) Their oral tradition claims an unbroken line to pre-Meiji Japan, which would catagorize KAR as a koryu if this was supported with reasonable evidence. I've read all the documentation currently referenced on this thread, and have compiled a few conclusions.

    The KAR AJJ is claimed to have come from Saigo Tanamo (oshikiuchi), which is why they say that they do not claim to have a relationship with the Daito ryu of Takeda Sokaku, since Saigo was supposedly the one that taught Takeda oshikuchi as well.

    Whether this claim is to be considered plausable relies heavily on whether you believe Saigo knew oshikiuchi, and that it was/is a martial method. Many in Daito ryu think that oshikiuchi is martial, while many researchers do not. This becomes a matter of opinion until further evidence is produced.

    2) KAR, to date and to my knowledge, has not released any densho (tradition documents), photos, administrative articles (hanko, enrollment books, etc.), interviews, statments, or anything else to verify on any level a claim to origins - or even connections - to Japan, let alone that of a pre-Meiji lineage, aside from reference to a ryu of a different name and no details listed in the BRDJ. While the claims may be true, the fact remains that anyone with access to a book like the BRDJ can pick a ryu-ha, fabricate a history connecting their art to such a ryu, and publicly claim to be a small, secret art transmitted privately through the generations. This entry in itself is not all that convincing, though perhaps it is better than nothing (was there an art called "Yama arashi ryu" active in pre-Meiji Aizu/Fukushima?).

    Mr. Raugus states that only senior members are privy to the contact information for their head mistress in Japan, which is why others cannot verify a relationship. Do any photographs exist of her, or with some of the members in Japan visiting her? Photos of at least one previous headmaster has been published on the net already.

    3) The KAR pages, and Mr. Raugus, state that the terminology used in the art, including changes in the name itself, have come about in the last generation or so. This would explain why alot of the terminology can be found in arts like aikido and karate, but unfortunately does not bring us any closer to establishing a lineage to pre-Meiji Japan.

    **

    Aside from reports that the techniques are effective, and that the members are of good character, there is not much for the pubic to go on in regards to history.

    Mr. Vilaire apparently does claim lineage to Daito ryu in the "American Masters of 5 Aiki Arts" video, available from Tony Annesi/ Bushido-kai Budoya. The catalog for Bushido-kai Budoya also says, perhaps mistakenly, on page 13: "Akihiro had taken his grandfather's teachings and added to them what he learned from his study of Daito-ryu."

    So is KAR a koryu that continues in an unbroken line from the classical yamabushi warriors, or an art founded by Mr. Vilaire here in America?

    Unless the leaders of KAR choose to offer substantiating evidence of some kind, we technically have unsubstantiated claims to historical/national lineage. Whether this is an important enough issue for KAR to address is of course up to them. The rest of us should take these facts for what they are, since nothing conclusive in either direction has been established.

    In the meantime, I've merged several of the e-budo threads and referenced them on this thread. Additionally, there is a thread in the Koryu section:

    Kaze Arashi ryu

    KAR seems to have three web pages as well:

    KAR/ New York

    KAR/ England

    KAR/ Florida

    Aside from minors errors/typos, they seem to all be pretty consistent, except for perhaps the Florida one, which states:

    "Kaze Arashi Ryu is a classical Japanese martial arts tradition that incorporates both empty hand and weapon techniques used by the Samurai for use against multiple skilled opponents."

    Anyway, unless new evidence is introduced, or corrections offered, I'd say there is nothing else to discuss here!

    Regards,
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 9th January 2002 at 23:20.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  3. #78
    mdheiler Guest

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    Regarding the following statement:
    -----
    Mr. Vilaire apparently does claim lineage to Daito ryu in the "American Masters of 5 Aiki Arts" video, available from Tony Annesi/ Bushido-kai Budoya. The catalog for Bushido-kai Budoya also says, perhaps mistakenly, on page 13: "Akihiro had taken his grandfather's teachings and added to them what he learned from his study of Daito-ryu."
    -----

    An individual who is member of the KAR once told me that Akihiro Nishiyama studied Daito-ryu after obtaining his teaching license in KAR.

    An individual who is not a member of KAR once told me that Akihiro Nishiyama's name shows up on a list of students of Daito-ryu. I do not know which generation, but it is something that could be easily verified by someone with access to such lists. I'm guessing the time frame would be around the 1920's, maybe a decade earlier later.

    Michael D. Heiler

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    Thanks for the additional input, but unless such a listing in a recognized branch of DR is produced, the possibility is unsubstantiated. The problem is that there are a number of branches of "DR", and they all keep their own records.

    Mr. Raugus and those hosting authorized KAR web pages have opted to remove such claims to DR until such evidence can be produced.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    BTW, if the reference I'm looking at is correct, "Daido ryu" was founded by someone named Goto Tameuemon Tadayoshi sometime in the 17th century, and was taught in Aizu (Fukushima).
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 8th July 2007 at 22:43. Reason: Daido-ryu correction
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Exclamation THREADS MERGED

    Just a note to let you know that all the aforementioned Kaze Arashi ryu related threads in this forum have been merged into this single thread to assist in archiving and search results.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  7. #82
    Mark Raugas Guest

    Exclamation Announcement

    I've been asked to post the following message.

    Best Wishes,
    Mark Raugas
    www.kazearashiryu.org

    -------------------------------------

    To Whom it May Concern:

    The only authorized representatives of Henri Robert Vilaire currently licensed to teach the arts of Kaze Arashi Ryu are Abel Castanos, Gus Flores, William Franklin, Dean Karras, Mark Raugas, Srini Sastri, Chris Sookchand, Mark Sprague, and Kirby Watson. Certain students of these instructors lead small study groups; any questions about the provenance of a person claiming to offer instruction in the arts of, or to represent, Kaze Arashi Ryu should be directed in writing to the address below:

    Henri-Robert Vilaire
    c/o Kaze Arashi Ryu
    9201 North 7th Avenue
    Phoenix, AZ 85021

    Attn: Inquiries

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    Default Kaze Arashi Ryu Jujutsu

    Has anyone heard of this group before (Kaze Arashi Ryu Jujutsu) Here is there web page: http://www.kazearashiryu.org/kar.html

    I tried to do a little more research on it besides the webpage and found nothing else. Is it a legit group? Just curious.
    Sincerely,

    Eric Joyce
    Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu

  9. #84
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    Nevermind. I found some history on it in the archives.
    Sincerely,

    Eric Joyce
    Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu

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    Default KAR Exposed #1

    Folks,

    For those who have not heard yet, and as a conclusion to this thread, I'd urge you to take a look at the following (16 page) thread in bad budo:

    Kaze Arashi-ryu - A statement from Ellis Amdur

    Here is a summary:

    Kaze Arashi-ryu - A statement from Ellis Amdur (11-30-05)
    There was a recent thread about Kaze Arashi-ryu regarding it's legitimacy. Mark Raugas, a senior practitioner, who is a training partner of mine in Gao Bagua and a personal friend, responded to the questions based on what he knew -the oral traditions of his school as passed down by his teacher. I responded at the imputation several folks made that he was lying - I know my friend as a man of integrity, and so spoke up on his behalf. I also said that I'd seen some photos which he had referred to as supporting his statements (the photos were real, but the identifiers were, I believe, false). On my first viewing of the jujutsu in the system, it did appear to be Meiji period TYPE waza, and that I didn't know what to make of the kenjutsu (which, in fact, I had seen once in a demonstration).

    My stepping in rather stopped the discussion.Don Roley said some complimentary things about my reputation for integrity, for which I thank him, and asked, in essence, if I could check things out. I didn't intend to do so - not in that way, perhaps. In the limited time that I have outside work, family and training, I'm always looking for what is true - and as soon as I discern something as false, I just ignore it. I have not cared to spend the time necessary to examine and debunk in depth.

    Events intervened, however, due to my stepping in the discussion. Prompted by matters that are best discussed by KAR members if they choose, I reviewed two things: a) an account of the various origin stories told about the school b) Five DVD which have the bulk of the syllabus of the school. I will not go into more detail than is necessary here, and I do not care to discuss in any more detail what I post here. It is up to the current and former members of KAR to publicize any evidence they have, but suffice it to say that I have seen evidence to convince me of the following:

    First of all, I am convinced that ALL of the claimed history of KAR is false - not mistakes, not misinterpretations, but fabrications. I do not believe that the art was created in Japan, and I also am convinced that neither Nishiyama nor the majority of the figures cited as senior shihan ever existed. I believe the school started with Mr. Henri Villaire.

    Secondly, I carefully viewed the weapons kata and jujutsu as well, and see it as a pastiche of koryu kata from several prominent schools (derived, I believe, from videos - not actual training) grafted onto aikido type sword/tai-sabaki and movements, elements from aikido and Miyama-ryu, a school which Mr. Villaire is reported to have studied, as well as movements and techniques that are never seen outside of Japanese movies. The grafted on koryu techniques and sections of kata are so unique to the respective ryu that, chained together in one form, it is impossible, in my view, that they could have been independently arrived at. If you see a dancer do fifteen signature movements from a Balanchine choreography, sprinkled within another dance, it's pretty well impossible that someone could have recreated something so unique.

    These elements and waza are, however, executed with profound misunderstanding. In addition, there were elements of etiquette, stance, kamae, oral teachings, ma-ai, the names of the kata and the structure of the kata which absolutely have never appeared in any Japanese school. It would be like seeing a Balinese dancer in toe shoes. Or a claim that Bach played on the harpsichord with marimba hammers.

    I'm outraged on behalf of my friends, both for the years they've spent in dedicated training (there ARE some good technique - their time was not totally wasted), but also that they have found themselves, in good faith, defending a lie. (I stand by my statement that M. Raugas was not lying).
    I still do not agree with the proposition that one should furnish an outsider with the contact information of one's teacher, who may wish to be private for any one of a number of reasons. But the larger issue is this - were I not to post this, I would be supporting something I believe to be a lie. I'm simply here setting the record straight.

    One final point - I am not posting this at the request of any KAR or former KAR member. I am speaking for myself, after forming my own opinion after examining in depth the differing accounts of the oral history, examining at great length the video of the mokuroku, and after becoming privy to documentary evidence which establishes, as far as I am concerned, the fundamental dishonesty at the core of this organization, something that is the responsiblity of the teacher alone.

    With respect
    __________________
    Ellis Amdur
    Author of Dueling with Osensei & Old School: Essays on Japanese Martial Traditions, as well as the DVD, Ukemi from the Ground Up
    For inquires: http://www.edgework.info
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 12th July 2013 at 22:54.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  11. #86
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    Default KAR Exposed #2

    From Mark Raugus:

    (12-01-05) Hi All,

    Since I've posted on e-budo before, I'd like to announce that I have formally resigned from the Kaze Arashi group. I wish all my old friends who continue to train under that umbrella the best of luck in their practice.

    Eric: It was great fun training that day and I am glad to have met you in person. I would like to apologize to you and to everyone else I got into internet conflicts with over KAR in the past. Best of luck in your Hontai Yoshin-ryu training.

    Mark
    __________________
    Best Wishes
    Mark Raugas
    And...

    (12-19-05) In Ms. Wilson's recent posting to e-budo she completely missed what is at issue here. It is not Ellis’ opinion of the technical teachings of Kaze Arashi Ryu that matters so much; it is the alleged dishonesty at the core of Kaze Arashi Ryu. Ellis’ post was necessary because he previously vouched for me and KAR in one of these very discussions. Having changed his opinion about KAR, he is free to state that publicly. Ellis' opinions, as much as I respect them, are actually tangential to the real issue. The real problem is that several of the highest-ranking members of KAR have recently decided to quit that organization after many years of hard study, and prolonged interaction with Henri. Some of whom don't know Ellis and probably don't really care much about what he has to say. They quit not because of Ellis or anyone else external to the “ryu” but because of their experiences internal to it. Probably experiences she would not be privy to, given its hierarchical structure.

    I myself quit KAR before getting any negative feedback about its arts from Ellis or anyone else. I quit because I felt something was fundamentally wrong with things I had been told and behaviors I witnessed. I waited a long time, and gave a great deal of “benefit of the doubt” as a result of my conviction in the physical techniques. But as I was not getting, and realized I was never going to get, a straight answer or resolution to the problems I saw at the core of the organization, I left.

    Having left, what is my opinion of the arts themselves?

    I feel that KAR teaches quite good aiki-styled jujutsu possibly drawn from an admixture of kenpo, aikido, and/or Daito-ryu of some kind. It contains a good amount of kenpo-styled atemi which is very well integrated with its jujutsu. If it does come from an art called Yama Arashi-ryu, I have seen no historical proof of that. I have seen no proof that anyone knew Kaze Arashi Ryu before Henri began teaching it in Queens around 1980. Whatever its origins, Henri Vilaire is probably not even the most skilled exponent or teacher of that art today. It is my opinion that his student Abel Castanos moves much better than him, and has for some time. In that way, Henri was successful as a teacher.

    As for its weapons, KAR teaches what I feel to be very good use of the tanto. It also has what I still find to be interesting use of the bo (called daijo in KAR), which parallels its atemi in many ways. At this time I think a lot of the sword work does not work as well as KAR members think it may. Out of the entire curriculum of kenjutsu, I can think of both basic (fundamental) and advanced (esoteric) aspects that do not work well once you think outside the box of the form they are taught in, and even less well with shinken than with bokken. Some of it remains quite good in my opinion, but of those portions, I have no idea where they come from -- if they were mis-appropriated or not. People like Ellis, who have seen a number of different koryu in detail, would be more qualified to make statements about provenance than me.

    After I left, I took Ellis’ feedback at face value, and decided to experimentally validate the teachings as best as I could. I had done those movements for over sixteen years on faith, within the context of KAR practice. With that experience, I tested them with someone who was training in KAR even longer than I had been. We came to negative conclusions about the kenjutsu in the process of wanting to hold onto it, even after deciding to leave. It was not an easy realization to come to. It went against the grain of my thinking, as I had sparred well against other people in the past – even one person who did koryu - but shinai are not shinken, and moving forward, I am only interested in practicing things which I know work.

    I can understand Ms. Wilson's loyalty, even though I feel it to be misguided. But being forced to examine the field weapons critically, with no guru figure to hold our hands and tell us "it is all fine, you just need to train harder" my friend and I came to some hard negative conclusions. Of the myriad of sword techniques we were taught over the last fifteen years, only a portion of them are worth retaining as useful in an unscripted environment. And if I am not qualified to say this, after Henri awarded me menkyo-kaiden in KAR, and I was generally regarded as one of the people most interested in working on and preserving the weapons teachings he presented us with...

    The situation is unfortunately more problematic than dealing with a single ‘disgruntled former student.’ KAR as taught from Vilaire has mixed a great deal of New Age and New Religion dressed up as an older form of Shugendo into its upper level practices. There is nothing wrong with New Religion, or New Age ideas in principle. But, I feel the mystical worldview promulgated by Vilaire created a great deal of loyalty in a number of people, as well as an "us versus them" mentality. This I feel is unfortunate, especially since those teachings all came from a person who is not very educated in Japanese history, language, or culture. Those ideas were often expressed in very Western terms. So, what happened? People who were generally not trained in logic misapplied logic in their thinking. Even people who made efforts to be well-informed put in even greater efforts to rationalize the stories presented to them, to find the grain of commonality or truth to them:

    Because Henri is good at jujutsu, many of us thought him to be good at classical weapons, and teaching in a classical style. Because we thought him taught in a classical style, we thought his teachings to be expressive of classical martial arts. It is my opinion that the first inference was incorrect, and the second even more so, being based on a false assumption.

    Maybe our jujutsu is good because Henri was actually taught jujutsu by someone. Maybe there are problems with our field weapons practice because he was never taught the classical use of field weapons. He long ago said he was not taught weapons by Samuel, but by Rene Barjaval. He also said his teacher only used bokken, and not shinken. That all being said, I now have some strong suspicions that Rene Barjaval does not exist, and neither does David Lee Samuel, Marie O’Toole, or Akemi Nishiyama.

    I think Henri is a very talented modern jujutsu practitioner who over-stepped the bounds of his training in attempting to teach ‘classical’ martial arts. Because he was talented, I think he felt he had license to improvize a great portion of his curriculum. But since he is only human, I feel he made some mistakes along the way. It is not that there are mistakes that is the important issue. There could be old arts with mistakes as well (although I imagine they would probably less fundamental in scope -- witness natural selection). It is that the process behind the creation of, or true nature of, the arts were hidden from even senior practitioners. Disclosure was simply was not part of the program. I am left thinking that a good deal of KAR ‘weapons’ curriculum should be best viewed as a form of aikiken or aikijo; i.e. drills or practices to improve KAR jujutsu.

    Why care about provenance or history or how KAR represents itself? Martial artists care about lineage because for some of these arts, we do not use them in combat in the present day (e.g. sword, naginata). Lineage then becomes important, so that we know we have a connection to the past, outside of the realm of dream or fantasy. Without lineage, were we to have fighting ability alone, it would be sufficient to determine the ‘reality’ of our practice. But in arts which are no longer used in their full form, one must be more conservative in one’s thinking.

    One can argue that lineage is only important because we do not fight each other any longer, and cannot stand solely on fighting ability. This is true. Pure fighting ability should be enough. But without character, both lineage and ability become irrelevant.

    I would have loved proof about what it is I was taught. I would have loved to have been sat down, set straight, and set on my way. But Vilaire was quite willing, in retrospect, to let anyone who questioned him and wanted something more than a story by way of an answer, walk away. To that several of us ultimately said, "keep your sense of identity". We were tired of the stories. They grew thinner and thinner as time wore on.

    It is time to move on. I am not interested in hashing out all the gory details of why I quit beyond what I have written above. I am not interested in having a conversation on the subject. If Vilaire wishes to provide the public proof about KAR's origins, then he will do so. I myself was quite willing to let my one line statement earlier in this thread stand. But silence would somehow feel inappropriate, given all that has been said about me during my absence from this discussion.

    If Ms. Wilson wants to practice KAR under Henri, no one is going to stop her. If Henri is just concerned with techniques and not history, it is however time for both him and his students to lose the stories – and as they say, shut up and train. But when they do so, they should remember: character and self-discipline and honesty above all other things are the heart of true budo. Without that, we are left only with the darkness of violence.

    MVR
    __________________
    Best Wishes
    Mark Raugas
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Default KAR Exposed #3

    From E-budo moderator Robert Wolfe:

    (12-14-05) I’ve had the distinct pleasure of seeing Mark Raugas in action, during kagami biraki at our dojo several years ago. The demonstration he and his crew presented was one of the most impressive I’ve seen, of any art. Mr. Raugas, Kevin Tsai, and company weren’t just obviously lethal, they were flat-out scary. Given the degree of skill and implicit knowledge of the tradition reflected in that demonstration, I would say Mr. Raugas has exactly the credentials to judge the authenticity of the art he’s practiced for more than 15 years. He also has experience outside the envelope of KAR, and the benefit of input from recognized authorities in the field upon which to base his assessment.

    As for it being “foolish to assume one man created this tradition,” as Mr. Marrero suggested, single individuals are credited with creation of various extant koryu, or at least the initial components thereof. Especially if he were drawing from established arts, “borrowing” kata or techniques and overlaying both with some integrating philosophy or principle, I see no reason a particularly talented individual wouldn’t be capable of constructing a system like KAR.

    Although I agree with Mr. Marrero on the point one “cannot become a doctor by looking at a season of ER,” a credentialed emergency room doctor watching that same season would certainly be in the position to identify mistakes or inauthentic actions presented in the show. Mr. Amdur is in an analogous situation, as a credentialed expert in more than one classical tradition and a couple of relatively modern arts, to boot.

    In the absence of verifiable documentation of the lineage of a ryu, judgments such as that offered by Mr. Amdur can be made on the basis of the observable characteristics of the art, its composition and methodology, and its underlying doctrine. There is a “feature set,” as Diane Skoss terms it, of characteristics that pertain to authentic koryu. She notes that not all koryu have all the characteristics, or even many of the same characteristics, and not all the characteristics in the feature set are necessarily readily definable, but the fact is there are attributes of authentic arts that are readily apparent to knowledgeable observers like Mr. Amdur.

    Regardless of the physical efficacy of individual techniques within a particular system, Dave Lowry has made the point that fundamental dishonesty or deliberate obfuscation at the core of a system corrupts the practice in subtle but significant ways and ultimately affects and compromises the practitioners themselves by requiring energy and spirit that should be available to training be diverted to justifying the practice, to themselves or others. An internal schism is created when some seed of doubt in one’s instructor is planted, exacerbated by the fact the physical and psychic danger inherent in practice of classical (or classical-styled) martial arts in essence requires absolute trust and faith in the instructor. Eventually such disharmony can reach something of a critical mass, resulting in even as senior a practitioner as Mr. Raugas deciding honor and integrity demand a different course.

    I wish Mr. Raugas the best of luck in the future -- after what he’s going through, he’ll have earned it.

    Bob Wolfe
    And from Mike Heiler:

    (12-20-05) The first step to recovery is admission. Yes, I was a student of Kaze Arashi-ryu. I studied KAR for nine years and was awarded the rank of Mokuroku, I stopped training in KAR about seven years ago, and have since trained in other martial arts, both gendai and koryu. I have met and trained with Mr. Villaire.

    I first met Mark Raugas about eleven years ago, but had little contact with him afterwards. Recently, I have taken the time to become re-aquainted with Mark, upon the recommendation of several people whose opinions I hold in high regard. One thing we all agree upon is that Mark is a person of high intelligence and excellent moral quality. Mark also exhibits exception martial skills. I am aware of Mark's sincere attempts to reconcile with Mr. Villaire what most of us on this forum see as long standing and blatant dishonesty on the part of Mr. Villaire. Mark's actions and words, both in private and public, only reenforce my high opinion of him. Those individuals who know Mark have only had good things to say about him. I ask that those individual who do not know him decease from making any further negative comments about Mark on this forum.

    It is my OPINION that KAR is a modern martial art created in America, specifically New York, in recent times. My opinion is based upon information that I have received over the year regarding the techniques of KAR and other martial arts, and the (changing) history of KAR.

    The techniques of KAR are formed around ten taisabaki (actually five preformed on both left and right sides). With one minor variance, the first eight match exactly eight taisabaki that I have seen performed by practitioners of Miyama-ryu. Also, the five variations of the KAR technique kote gaeshi, match exactly with the five variations that I have seen performed by practitioners of Miyama-ryu (e.g., hand position for each one, method of locking in the technique, angles on movement). It is my understanding that Mr. Villaire studied Miyama-ryu while younger and living in New York near where Miyama-ryu was first taught. I'm guessing that other techniques will be similar between the two arts.

    Several techniques in KAR also bear a very striking resemblance to techniques I have performed and seem performed by groups and individuals that have studied under Yonezawa, of Daito-ryu fame, some of which claim that lineage, while other have made up their own. By striking resemblance, I mean that while most other unarmed martial arts that I have studied (e.g., various lines of aikido, gendai and koryu jujutsu) all have techniques that resemble aikido's kote gaeshi, irimi nage, kokyu nage, etc. on the face, the techniques as performed by these groups are very different from both KAR and the Yonezawa derived groups, whereas the techniques as performed by the KAR and the Yonezawa derived groups are much more similar to each other.

    It is also interesting that KAR uses the same naming convention as aikido for most all of the techniques that it has in common with aikido. This is something that I have seem only in the Yonezawa derived arts, and no where else.

    Lastly, for the techniques, several changes were made to the techniques during the time that I was a student, and since I have left. I find this very strange for an art that has been around for 130+ years, and one whose members holds its lineage and effectiveness up so highly. I actually have found the unarmed techniques as taught by KAR to be more effective than most, including mainline and yoshinkan aikido, and gendai and koryu jujutsu. Their effectiveness did desert me with judo players though. I've since taken up judo. The KAR jojutsu seems to me to be at least decently effective, although I've never been able to test this as I have with the unarmed art, and the KAR jojutsu arm and leg locks are very, very, very painful. Having the opportunity to study a few koryu kenjutsu, I have found the KAR kenjutsu to be very odd, and ineffective. This may be due to KAR trying to graft the kenjutsu onto the same taisabaki, with the same blocks to the same attacks, as used in the aikijujutsu.

    As for the history of KAR, I found it odd that the oral history has changed so much from the time when I was a student. As a student of KAR, I was told without a doubt that Nishiyama Shiro studied aikijujutsu from Saigo Tanomo, and was a contemporary student with Saigo Shiro and Takeda Sokaku. I was also told that Nishiyama did not like Takeda, and can recall at least one specific opinion that Nishiyama was said to hold of Takeda. I was told that Saigo Shiro was sent by Saigo Tanomo and Nishiyama, who was said to be his senior, to Kano to help promote judo because of its higher goals. I was told that Kawaguchi Ekai, subject of the book "A Stranger in Tibet" by Scott Berry, was a Menkyo Kaiden holder in KAR. I was told that Nishiyama Akihiro, grandson of Shiro and inheritor of KAR, was also a student of Takeda. Everything that I was told about KAR indicated that it was a sister art to Daito-ryu, and in fact I wastold that Daito-ryu was the sister art. It is my understanding that none of this is part of the oral history anymore. I have yet to be presented with any information proving the claimed history, or the existence of anyone in the claimed lineage other than Mr. Villaire and his students.

    It is curious how such debates flair up over such seemingly trivial matters as the history of some obscure martial art taught to only a few dozen people. For my part, I dislike that it seems some very sincere people are being lied to about the history of an art they practice, and may be relying on that history in making their decision to study the art. It would be nice if Mr. Villaire and others in his position would either provide the proof of their lineage and shut the rest of up, or admit to them having made up their art. I don't care either way, as long as it's the truth. Heck, I'd most likely still be studying KAR if this had happened anytime in the last six or seven years.

    I don't know if we'll get the issue resolved in the present generation, but it will be interesting to see what happens to the arts in successive generations. Which brings forth the question: is KAR worth preserving and passing on, and, if so, then in what form? My opinion is yes, as a gendai jujutsu, with truthfulness about the history. My own time in KAR has since allowed me to walk into several dojo in the past seven years, and participate at a decent level of technical ability. No matter how you slice it, a lie is a lie. Would those of you that are standing up for Mr. Villaire so vehemently, stand up for your spouse if they had been blatantly lying to you about their past and the basis for your relationship with then for fifteen or twenty years, because they thought it necessary to gain your loyalty and keep it?
    I'm not going to pretend to be "shocked" by all this, but at the same time, I do feel genuinely bad for all the KAR students who were suckered into the art through a fabricated history/lineage.

    I also would like to publicly applaud Mark Raugus, Kevin Tsai, Mike Heiler, and others who all made the hard decision to suck it up and start all over again. That's not easy to do after so many years of time and financial investment in an art, so it says a lot for your character. Good luck to all of you.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    For those with continuing interest in this subject, Mark Raugus also has an essay online where he examines the methods of KAR:

    http://www.innerdharma.org/kar.html

    BTW, I guess it's a little late now, but I noticed the following statement a few posts up:

    An individual who is not a member of KAR once told me that Akihiro Nishiyama's name shows up on a list of students of Daito-ryu. I do not know which generation, but it is something that could be easily verified by someone with access to such lists. I'm guessing the time frame would be around the 1920's, maybe a decade earlier later.
    Based on the early time period, the list would almost have to be from Takeda Sokaku's eimeiroku. I have previously checked the summarized version of the published eimeiroku and did not find any name even close to Nishiyama Akihiro.

    Regards,
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 27th September 2008 at 15:23. Reason: Updated essay url
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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