Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Koshiki no kata

  1. #1
    Ted Bouck Guest

    Default Koshiki no kata

    Greetings Listka,

    I am fairly new to Judo / jujutsu, but have been doing sword related stuff for a bunch of years. Much of that in WMA's armour. I am quite interested in the old style kumiuchi that is commented upon in Kodokan Judo.

    I have the book on the way [should have bought it at least two years ago], and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this kata? Be it explanation, history, advice, or other books - sites in which I could further my study of kumiuchi, and this kata?!!

    Thanks for the help!

    Ted Bouck

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    148
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Hi Ted!

    Koshiki no Kata is said to be the central kata of Kito-ryu. Kano took it, change a few of the techniques, and preserved it in his Kodokan Judo.

    The things that are changed in the Kata is mostly minor changes how uke attacks (except for one technique, Yudachi, where tori doesn't throw uke).

    The techniques that he changed from Kito-ryu are:

    - Yume no Uchi (uke run across in front of tori and tries to drag him with him and throw him...Tori's action is the same)
    - Ryokuhi (uke does not have his arms crossed, but tries to push tori backward...at least it looks like it...Tori's action is the same)
    - Mizu-guruma (uke does not have his arms crossed, but tries to push tori backward...at least it looks like it...Tori's action is the same)
    - Hikiotoshi (tori and uke take hold of each other, and tori performs an uki-otoshi simular to Nage no Kata)
    - Yudachi (uke's attack is the same, but Tori applys a control technique instead)
    - Ko-daore (Instead of just walking with the arm pointing towards uke's nose, tori tries to strike ukes right temple with the knife-edge of his right hand...The rest is the same though)
    - Tani-otoshi (uke performs a funny "dance-step", in lack of better words, before he performs the attack. The attack and defence of uke and tori is still the same though)

    On my home page at URL:

    http://home.astrakan.hig.se/tommy/judo/index.html

    You can find a description on Koshiki no Kata and it's techniques. Click on the links -> techniques -> kata -> Koshiki no Kata...

    I also recommend you to buy the tape from Kodokan on Koshiki no Kata (http://www.hint.co.jp/kshop/index.html)

    I love to work on Koshiki no Kata and it's techniques. The techniques are powerful and also gives you a sense of how Kito-ryu felt like...

    Hope this helped you a bit...

    Regards,
    Tommy

  3. #3
    MarkF Guest

    Default

    Just as a reminder, Koshiki no kata is also referred to as kitoryu no kata. That pretty much tells the basic story. The techniques were refined only so as to do them without the armour, from what I know, but Tommy gives one of the most complete stories of this kata.

    He has very special friends (darn it).


    Mark

  4. #4
    MarkF Guest

    Default

    BTW: Someone copied me this kata, along with all those taught at the Kodokan. I think he may think it is a copy I made, but it is the only one I have.

    However, I think I will meet him in Seattle and get the tape there (sufficient warning to copy the thing).:-)

    I should get the original, though, as the copy wasn't that good in the first place.

    Mark

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    148
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Hi!

    Mark...they aren't that special )

    The best video on Koshiki no Kata is the "Kodokan Judo Video Series NO.2 - Koshiki no Kata". I also have the Kodokan Kagami-Biraki where Koshiki no Kata is performed, as Mark writes, but the "Kodokan Judo Video Series NO.2 - Koshiki no Kata" gives you detailed instructions on the Kata...It can be ordered from Kodokans home page as I wrote before...cost no more then 60 USD (shipping included)...The video is worth it...I promise...

    Regards,
    Tommy

  6. #6
    Ted Bouck Guest

    Default koshiki no kata

    Thanks for all the help Tommy and Mark.

    Tommy, what a great post and site, I will be absorbing that stuff for years. Its awesome that people like you take the time and energy to do this kind of stuff for people like me. It makes the world a better, closer place, and one where a learning curve is very reduced.

    I will need to get that tape and start studying judo harder also.

    Thanks again!!
    Ted Bouck

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    148
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Forgot to tell you that the original Kata seam to include an extra defence against Shikoro-gaeshi, where you finnish of with a Yoko-wakare instead...

    And the statement I did regarding the Ko-daore should perhaps not be included at all...

    In the original kata Tori attacks uke's right temple. But I think they tells you in the Kodokan tape, that the intent from tori is to attack uke's temple...

    Regards,
    Tommy

  8. #8
    Ben Reinhardt Guest

    Default

    I like Koshiki No Kata. The Ura is done quickly, and is a good workout.

    It can really open your mind as to the principles of throwing. I learned stuff I use in randori now, believe it or not.

    It blew my mind.

    Ben R.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    148
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    I agree with you. What it teach you is awsome. I really love what it teach about unbalancing. Although designed for men in armour, I can't see why one couldn't use the stuff tought here for more modern self-defence. Well...it has really been done (yoko-geri in Kodokan Goshin-jutsu use roukuhi for example...). Tani-otoshi against a headlock...?

    Tommy

  10. #10
    Ben Reinhardt Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by tommysella
    I agree with you. What it teach you is awsome. I really love what it teach about unbalancing. Although designed for men in armour, I can't see why one couldn't use the stuff tought here for more modern self-defence. Well...it has really been done (yoko-geri in Kodokan Goshin-jutsu use roukuhi for example...). Tani-otoshi against a headlock...?

    Tommy
    I think it is applicable in modern self defense, but only if you want to severely injure or kill someone. Being that was what it was designed to do in the first place, there are no half measure, or control type techniques in it.

    Throwing somone onto your knee, or smashing their face into the ground is pretty severe stuff.

    Yeah, the Yoko Geri counter in Goshi Jutsu is a good example.

    Ben R.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    148
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    At the IJF 4th Meetings and Seminars, Daigo gave a slightly different purpose (I got some notes from it written by the former Chairman of the National Grading Commission of the Swedish Judo Federation). Daigo told that the purpose for Tori is to kneel down and throw Uke over his left knee. Uke will have a very severe fall, and he will probably break his back or his neck.

    But I agree with you...the falls can be nasty if one don't take a step to the side...

    Tommy

Similar Threads

  1. Sutemi...
    By George Hyde in forum Aikido
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: 15th May 2007, 08:04
  2. Motobu Choki
    By Troll Basher in forum Ryukyuan Unarmed Martial Arts
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: 25th August 2005, 19:12
  3. 1978 Interview with Soken Hohan by Ernest Estrada
    By CEB in forum Ryukyuan Unarmed Martial Arts
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 14th July 2003, 03:44
  4. Kata
    By Paihequan in forum Ryukyuan Unarmed Martial Arts
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 5th January 2003, 20:40
  5. How Many Kata Are Enough?
    By Victor in forum Karate Archive
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 7th October 2002, 04:06

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •