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Thread: Takagi ryu / Hontai Yoshin ryu / Takagi Yoshin ryu jujutsu

  1. #31
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    Hi Guys

    I think this question has already been asked but i'm not sure about the answer. Im pretty sure that I have seen the kata kasumi dori in Hon Tai yoshin Ryu. It is more or less the same kata as the one practised in the X kans. This is confusing me as it was said earlier in this thread that there was no connection between Takagi Yoshin Ryu as practised by the Xkans and HonTai Yo Shin Ryu. Any ideas?

    Regards

    Richard

  2. #32
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    If you're referring to what I posted earlier please read it again. There is a link between the lines of Hontai Yoshin Ryu and those practised by the various x-kan groups. There is no link between the various Hontai Yoshin Ryu lines and the other Yoshin Ryu. That school was founded by someone else entirely.
    The other lines all comprise variations on the name Hontai Yoshin Takagi Ryu and since they all came from the same source are bound to have some similarities in them.
    Regards.
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  3. #33
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    Kasumi dori can be found in Hontai Yoshin ryu. It is in the Omote no kata, which as I understand is directly rooted in shoden no kata of Takagi ryu.
    Jeff Brown

  4. #34
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    It should be also noted that even though Shingetsu Muso Yanagi-ryu (see thread with this name) is its own school, they are connected to Takagi-ryu. It also has the kata Kasumi Dori that looks like the other Takagi-ryu branches.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  5. #35
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    Default HYR, Koryu?

    Hi all,
    Just want a few opinions about what you all feel about this question.
    If HYR was refined (from what I've seen, its quite a bit) then would you consider it a true koryu (no references to the budokans defenition please) in the sense that the techniques have been modified that much and some revamped to a point that it is more like a new style based on the older one.
    The reason I ask this is that these changes seemed to take place after the Edo period so what people are practicing now are not like what they where doing back in the older days.
    I have only seen a couple of HYR classes so my appologies if I am incorrect with anything I've stated, I am only able to compare that with my Bujinkan TYR experience.
    Thanks
    Andrew Timms
    Andrew Timms

  6. #36
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    What differences or changes are you refering to? More importantly, why do you assume that the waza have been changed from those done in the past? What references can you cite for that change?
    I'm not in the ryuha so can't comment, but your question seems to assume common knowledge of changes made in the school and I was wondering what these were..
    Give us a base to help your question if you could?
    Regards.
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  7. #37
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    Thanks Ben,
    Quote from the history section of the Hontai Yoshin ryu site.
    The 16th master Kakuno Happeita had been planning to organize the various techniques and skills that had been developed over the years. Minaki succeeded in actualizing the will of Kakuno. He selected the most important and crucial skills of Hontai Yoshin Ryu Takagi Ryu and dedicated his time to organize these waza.
    Also Erics post on the first page states his experience of the two schools as being very diffrent, I'm sure he has more experience than me on the matter. The other thing was that whilst talking to a teacher of HYR he said that there are only 30 kata which is alot less than TYR/HTYR.
    Those which I have been through are very diffrent from the kata of the Bujinkan line of TYR but they have the same lineage until the last few sokes.
    I think that a belgium Genbukan site on their lineage part for HTYR mentions that HYR has the same lineage but uses completley diffrent techniques.
    Therefore is (as far as I've read) there has been no major changes to the kata in the lines which Hatsumi and Tanemura have (if I'm wrong please correct me) but there have been in HYR.
    Thats about all I can provide, anyone got any views on this?
    Andrew Timms
    Andrew Timms

  8. #38
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    Andrew,
    The curriculum that I have seen for HYR includes a great deal number more than 30 kata. It is commonly stated that there are 30 initial kata that are taught to students, with quite a few more available as one prorgress through the system.

    My understanding of the system is that Minaki sensei changed the organization of the waza as well as the manner in which they were instructed. The core principles of the system were not altered nor the application of the waza.

    As I stated above the Omote no kata that is practiced in HYR does have it roots firmly in the shoden no kata of Takagi ryu.

    Jeff
    Jeff Brown

  9. #39
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    Default HYR kata

    Hi all,

    My understanding is that Minaki soke reorganized principles of Takagi Ryu into three sets of kata, which are now the core of (unarmed) techniques of Hontai Yoshin Ryu. There are also other kata.

    As Jeff mentioned, the principles have not been changed, only the outer form.

    The current soke has told to me that Omote no Kata in HYR is original Takagi ryu kata. There may be small differences compared to other branches (for example in how some atemi are done).

    regards,
    Tomi Loytynoja

  10. #40

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    Hello guys,

    Looks like this thread had kappo applied to it...

    Minaki sensei was obviously a strong student as he did receive several scrolls as well as Yagi Ikigoro katana which is still used in HYR today. Pretty neat piece of history.

    The HYR kata were taken from the original HYTR kata. For example, you might be doing the second set of kata in HYR (nage no kata) but actually doing a variety of different kata from different levels of the original school that Minaki sensei trained in. With that in mind it makes it all very difficult to understand.

    The important thing is just choose something/someone to follow and be happy with your decision. If it doesn't turn out to be what you want then you can simply go elsewhere. If you choose wisely you will eventually get everything that you desire and then some. The old saying is..."you deserve the teacher that you end up with".

    Good luck!
    Todd Schweinhart
    WWW.YOSHINDOJO.COM

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