Likes Likes:  0
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 54

Thread: When would you consider your opponent defeated?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Victoria, BC Canada
    Posts
    504
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Mod Note

    Stephen can you please sign your full name on your posts as per the forum rules, please? If you have a reason why you think you should be exempt, let me (or Peter) know then ask John to let me know if it is OK by him.

    Thanks
    Forum Rules:
    Please sign your posts with your full name
    Tony Manifold
    " Attack, attack, attack- come at your target from every possible direction and press until his defenses overload. Never give him time to recover his balance: never give him time to counter"
    Stover

    http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold

  2. #32
    txhapkido Guest

    Default

    Posted by RunDuck&Hide. Break his/her wriste or arm or shoulder - that wont cause death but it will defeat the threat - I don't think I know anyone that'll fit on after you break bones.....
    Not always true. Psychotic or drugged up person can keep going in spite of breaks, gunshots, tire iron across the head, etc.. That's why I favor taking out their knees so you can just walk away.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Three Lakes,WI/Mishima City, Japan
    Posts
    14
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Most of the posts here deal with details of imagined violence. It may be kind of realistic to do so in some unlikely way, but I can't help but feel a major point of Morihei Ueshiba's teaching is being missed. I have never found any evidence that he felt that what he taught was supposed to be used in physical encounters at all. In fact, Terry Dobson described being prohibited from actual fighting during his apprenticeship.

    Aikido is based on spiritual teachings of a most optimistic and positive nature. Many people might find this pollyanna-like and naive, but I posit that the Founder's response to the question would be that the opponent would be defeated when he/she no longer feels a need to oppose.

    One of my goals in my training is to get to a level where I feel this in my heart instead of just intellectually.

    Charles Hill

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    209
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default yeagh but...

    Most of the posts here deal with details of imagined violence. It may be kind of realistic to do so in some unlikely way, but I can't help but feel a major point of Morihei Ueshiba's teaching is being missed. I have never found any evidence that he felt that what he taught was supposed to be used in physical encounters at all. In fact, Terry Dobson described being prohibited from actual fighting during his apprenticeship.
    Warriors pray for peace and train for war. If warriors pray for peace and train for peace they end up dead warriors.

    In a real sense I agree with you. Aikido is not really philosphicaly designed for the modern street where there are no rules and people will kill you for your shoes. I think that at the end of the day none of us really want to have to use the martial skills we develop on anyone, but sometimes we have no choice.

    In a dog eat dog world I want to be the German Shepherd wearing a bib.
    Lance Boggs
    _____________________

    "The man who can most truly be accounted brave is he who best knows the meaning of what is sweet in life and what is terrible, and then goes out undeterred to meet what is to come."

    Pericles

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Outside of Phila.
    Posts
    1,492
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    I'm not really sure how to express this recent experience, but I'll give it a shot. I have an 80 something year old great aunt who lives in North Philly (about 20 blocks west of Broad street). Its a neighborhood that has been in great distress, but it is slowly comming back due to improved housing efforts by developers and the city. The kind of lawlessness you regularly see there is armed gangs riding three wheeled off road vehicles down the streets at all times of the night and day, popping wheelies. Somehow, they evade any cops interested in stopping them .

    I was taking my aunt back home after dark on the forth (she's always either in a wheel chair or walking for *very* brief periods with a cane on one side and me on the other). While I was helping her out of my car, about 3 to 4 thugs began to approach us from the other side of the street. She started to get upset, so I propped her up against the car, and started telling her it was ok, there was no problem. I continued to help her, while angling my body so that I could watch the leader without looking directly at him. Just enough so he knew I could see him, but not enough to confront him. He got to within about 4 or 5 feet, then veered off and went on past us down the street with his buddies. I told my aunt "see, its just attitude", and took her on inside.

    I never really considered the opponant defeated...I considered us safer once he made clear by his change in direction that he had reconsidered his choice. I considered us safe once he and his little gang rounded the corner, and my aunt was inside. I guess if it had come to physical violence then the idea of victory or defeat would have entered into it. But I clearly was not in a good position to fight (had to protect my aunt, and I was outnumbered, and possibly out-armed). So the only real choice was to connect strongly with the opponant, not be confrontational, and do what I was there for.

    This is the only time I felt like my aikido training (connecting to the opponant before the attack, presense of mind, no fear) has been used to avoid actual violence. The sense of calm was astounding. Being focused on my aunt and the opponant at the same time was really kool, and I felt no adrenelin rush, and no shakiness after the incident. I guess you could say that I felt the opponant was defeated from the moment I saw him start to cross the street.

    Masakatsu Agatsu, Katsuhayabi
    True victory is victory over self, victory at the speed of light

    And a sincere thanks to my teachers,
    Utada Sensei, Ohama Sensei, Stevens Sensei and many others.

    Ron Tisdale

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    from deadly wild north
    Posts
    499
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Ron!!!!!!! I cant believe it!!!! Such wonderful situation to test your martial techniques!!!! and you quietly waisted it...

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

    We will neves know if your Elbow Power is efficient against street fighters...
    regardz

    Szczepan Janczuk

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Outside of Phila.
    Posts
    1,492
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default



    Well, at the time my mind was more on my aunt, and not getting either of us knifed or shot. Or just kicked into a wet spot on the curb.



    In hindsight, I can see I was setting the guy up for a side step in throw...I could even feel his center. At the time, my mind was clear...no conscious thought of technique at all. Pretty kool state of being actually.

    Ron (here's to them that lives an lives well)

    I'll just have to wait for another chance to try out physical technique...NOT...

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    136
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    It is kind of difficult to determine when The Unpronouncable One is serious, and when not.
    Szczepan, ever heard about Terry Dobson on the Tokyo underground train?
    Hanna Björk

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Outside of Phila.
    Posts
    1,492
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    I think the smilies show he was kidding...but there is often a little seriousness under that. There are enough stories about the yoshinkan being "martial", and enough people (like me) touting the sucsess of the yoshinkan methodologies for there to be a valid question of "real life stories".

    Frankly, I like reading them, but I really don't need to test. In the situation above, even if I physically defeated all 3 or 4 opponants, my aunt still could have had a heart attack just out of concern for me. Not to mention the fact that if the thugs had any brains, at least one of them would have singled her out as a hostage to control my behavior.

    No, there is no good (read safe) method for testing. And in the situation above, it was not even on the radar. I wasn't even concerned really about myself. Just my aunt. I think that focus on another person instead of myself was one of the factors for my calm. Any idea of testing techniques in that situation would be egotistical, selfish, and stupid.

    Ron (not that I'm not all of those things when not quite so much is riding on it) Tisdale

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Ft. Laud., Fl.
    Posts
    604
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Originally posted by Ron Tisdale
    I'm not really sure how to express this recent experience, but I'll give it a shot. I have an 80 something year old great aunt who lives in North Philly (about 20 blocks west of Broad street). Its a neighborhood that has been in great distress, but it is slowly comming back due to improved housing efforts by developers and the city. The kind of lawlessness you regularly see there is armed gangs riding three wheeled off road vehicles down the streets at all times of the night and day, popping wheelies. Somehow, they evade any cops interested in stopping them .

    DJM: Is this North Philly, Tokyo? The cops there never seem to catch noisy bikers, either...
    Don J. Modesto
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    ------------------------
    http://theaikidodojo.com/

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Three Lakes,WI/Mishima City, Japan
    Posts
    14
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    With Ron's post and his homage to Stevens Sensei and then szczepan's response, I have to tell my John Stevens story.

    When I lived in Sendai studying with Stevens Sensei, I had an apartment real close to the university. One night, my girlfriend (now wife) was visiting and someone broke into the apartment at about three in the morning. I heard him working on the sliding glass door, so I grabbed my bokken and snuck up to the side of the door. He got the flimsy latch unlocked so I threw open the door and took a swing. Luckily for both of us, he had jumped back at the door opening and I missed.

    He took off down the hill and I went after him yelling. It was raining really hard and all I was wearing was pajama bottoms. He, of course, had shoes on and outdistanced me quickly. I must have looked a sight as my pajama bottoms became so soaked with rain that I had to hold them up with one hand while the other hand was swinging a bokken and I'm running down the street yelling in almost no clothes.

    The next day at keiko, I told the story to Sensei. He laughed and said, "Well you missed your chance to try your technique for real."

    Charles Hill

  12. #42
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Outside of Phila.
    Posts
    1,492
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Hi guys,

    Don, I wish the off-roaders were just noisy...most of them go armed. Linked to drug gangs I believe...

    Charles, Stevens Sensei will be here in Philly tomorrow...I'll remind him of your story when I tell him mine. I might even take him on a tour... I can see you now, an enraged aikidoka running down the street naked, waving a bokken...no way my story can match that!

    RT

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Ft. Laud., Fl.
    Posts
    604
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Originally posted by Ron Tisdale
    Hi guys,

    Don, I wish the off-roaders were just noisy...most of them go armed. Linked to drug gangs I believe...
    No problem, Ron! Just look for the golden shafts of light preceding the bullets: Avoid them and you avoid the bullets!

    (Although, we haven't had THAT lesson in my dojo, yet...)
    Don J. Modesto
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    ------------------------
    http://theaikidodojo.com/

  14. #44
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    from deadly wild north
    Posts
    499
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Originally posted by Hanna B
    It is kind of difficult to determine when The Unpronouncable One is serious, and when not.
    Szczepan, ever heard about Terry Dobson on the Tokyo underground train?
    Urban legend, dear Hanna B, only urban legend.
    regardz

    Szczepan Janczuk

  15. #45
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    from deadly wild north
    Posts
    499
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Originally posted by Ron Tisdale
    I wasn't even concerned really about myself. Just my aunt.

    Ron (not that I'm not all of those things when not quite so much is riding on it) Tisdale
    Looks like you have very powerful KI. A guy lost in the moment when he decided to attack you!!! He just felt you inner child aura and he knew: he is hopeless and lost forever..

    Now I understand the only way to defete any enemies before they attack you and reach unification with univers: Think about Ron's aunt

    Congrats Ron!

    ps no smiles in this post, to make more difficult for Hanna.
    regardz

    Szczepan Janczuk

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Effectiveness of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu
    By Lil Dave in forum Aikijujutsu
    Replies: 113
    Last Post: 26th October 2011, 23:53
  2. Daito-ryu & Yoshin-ryu
    By Nathan Scott in forum Aikijujutsu
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 25th June 2008, 01:33
  3. Styles of Karate
    By Markaso in forum Karate Archive
    Replies: 137
    Last Post: 6th February 2005, 14:04
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 17th October 2004, 17:39
  5. Judo Competition Rule
    By Vapour in forum Judo
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 16th June 2003, 09:44

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •