The Two-Bar-Stool Punch!

Has anyone heard of this punch, otherwise known as the 1B, or the one-legged punch?

Do you feel this is an effective weapon? What are your thoughts on using it in the street?

The one-legged punch is a technique I am told was invented by the founder of Shukokai karate, Tani. It is a punch executed with blinding speed and force from far beyond punching range, and sometimes kicking range. My sensei tells me it was a popular street-fighting technique, often used in bars, where it could span the distance of two bar stools. It allows a karateka the element of suprise by launching an attack at a distance where the opponent feels he/she cannont be attacked without sufficient warning.

Thoughts?

[Jody Holeton]

Is it like the Vale Tudo jumping hook?

You fake a right round house kick BUT using your knee's momentum you jump in with a right hook.

Like dat?

[Shitoryu Dude]

One of the things taught at my dojo is closing seemingly safe distances very quickly to deliver a punch. Some of the guys can eat up a 12 or 15 foot separation so fast it blows your mind. I've seen Shihan close in from 20 feet the blink of an eye when someone starts feeling safe and getting sloppy with their guard because they think they are too far back to be attacked.

[CEB]

Originally posted by mushinmaster
Has anyone heard of this punch, otherwise known as the 1B, or the one-legged punch?

...
My sensei tells me it was a popular street-fighting technique, often used in bars, where it could span the distance of two bar stools. It allows a karateka the element of suprise by launching an attack at a distance where the opponent feels he/she cannont be attacked without sufficient warning.

Thoughts?

Just beat the hell out of your enemy with the barstool.

Jody - sounds kinda like the idea. It can be launched off a front kick or a fake front kick, but there is no jumping involved. A good punch is executed off one foot with the karateka at the same height as he would be normally, if not lower. It is almost like you fall into your opponent, throwing a punch on the way, but you stay under control and with balance.

Shitoryu Dude - my sensei says that Tani, the one who invented this punch, learned Shitoryu, before creating Shukokai. Do you know any of these ground closing techniques? Are you speaking about the cross-over step punch? The one-legged punch, distancing wise, is somewhere in between the cross-over step punch and the stationary reverse punch.

CEB - Just an example of where it got its nickname from dude. I almost laughed at my sensei when he said "one-legged punch," but I haven't been laughing since he threw one at me.

Anybody out there heard of this punch?

[Harry Cook]

When I was a little younger and still had all my own teeth I came up against the first generation of Shukokai tournament fighters in the UK in the early 1970s, primarily in the British University championships which was an all styles event, quite rare for Britain at the time. I think the punch you are referring to is what was known in the 1970s as "4B" (after the classification of the waza in Shukokai). The attacker throws (for example) a right a chudan mae-geri with a lot of forward pressure or momentum. As soon as the kick snaps back a right basic thrust punch is catapulted towards the opponent's face before the foot touches the ground; the reaction of the kick is used to generate the thrusting action of the punch, so the fist lands while the attacker is standing on one leg. Does it work? It certainly does. I was caught a number of times until I worked out what was going on, and I lost my left incisor in the process to a nice example of this technique delivered by a large, highly spirited Scotsman.
The Shukokai basic fighting combinations were recorded in what is now a rare little pamphlet Shukokai Karate Combinations G. T. Parker, Paul H. Crompton Ltd., London 1976. A more complete exposition of the style can be seen in Karate-Do Tani Karate Research Institute, Kobe, no date but prob. late 1970s.
Yours,
Harry Cook

The punch your refer to is known as the Super Punch in Muay Thai - i have black and white footage from the 1920's showing it being used in the ring. Involves launching yourself from well outside punching range to a height over opponents head then angling straight right punch to the nose over their hand guard. Left hand is sometimes used to drag down any lead hand which is not guarding securely. Typically followed up with hard grapple and kness to cover any failed attempt. Typical counter is to raise elbows in order that the deliverer flinches from possibly impaling their jaw on a spear elbow.

Variation on the above is the vine technique where you launch yourself at opponent, place foot on lead leg thigh and "climb" up the opponent to deliver super punch or jumping knee. More risky but a good flashy ring technique if able to pull it off.

Harry - that's precisely the one I am talking about! It can also be exectued, with almost as much power, w/o the front kick. Have you tried this technique or implemented it at all, or just been the victim, lol. My sensei has told us he used to use that same combination, but it is very risky. It takes a lot of committment to execute it properly.

Pirahna - these punches are not the same. There is no jumping in the one-legged punch. The karateka tries to stay as low to the ground as possible.

[Harry Cook]

I certainly did use it, but as referees became less tolerant of face contact it became risky in terms of disqualification or penalties. As you said it needs a lot of commitment and determination and the chance of landing a strong punch is quite high, so I developed a kind of variation where I would use the kick and punch as a fake or blinder and then follow up with a sweep and punch to the body which would score without re-arranging the opponent's features. Of course keeping the hips low sets up the sweep nicely, especially if you go for both legs at the same time.
Yours,
Harry Cook

This punch and then a foot sweep is one combination my sensei has been preaching about, lol. It works so nicely b/c you get the person moving backwards. He's also had us do a (after a rt punch) left leg thai kick, and it also sets you up beautifully for another rt punch, lead this time. The foot sweep and the thai kick have to be my favorites.

Have you ever used this technique outside of competition?

[Harry Cook]

The shin across the thigh - I used this once against a Japanese street punk outside Ichigaya railway station in Tokyo who objected to my existence. As for the one legged punch and follow up one of my students, a policeman, used this (as well as other miscelaneous techniques) to subdue a large drugged up prisoner who decided he didn't want to be locked up. However in general a lot of fighting gets physical at close range and so the mae-geri or whatever could be easily replaced with a knee, and the punch with an elbow; the key thing is attitude and adaptability coupled with a fast response. These were attributes highly valued by the Shukokai practitioners, so there was/is a natural carry-over into non-competition fighting.
Yours,
Harry Cook

cool cool. I told my sensei I was gonna check this out, lol. One person out of the thousands of e-budo users isn't too bad!

Were you shown this technique or did you just pick it up from those tournaments?

cool cool. I told my sensei I was gonna check this out, lol. One person out of the thousands of e-budo users isn't too bad!

Were you shown this technique or did you just pick it up from those tournaments?

[Harry Cook]

My first experience with this technique was in the tournaments - on the wrong end of it! Shukokai was designed for tournament fighting and so anyone involved in regularly fighting in competitions in the early 1970s in Britain would have some experience with these techniques. I was shown the basic Shukokai combinations by a couple of Shokokai dan grades who also fought in the British Univerity championships and league. I believed then, and still believe that ignorance of others methods, techniques etc is a prime way to be beaten in a fight, whether tournament or otherwise.
Yours,
Harry Cook

Were these like full-contact tournaments or the point fighting like in AAU today?

Cross training IS the key to sucess. Definatly.