Chambers

[Michael Plank]

I am not a student of karate. I have been exposed to some in my time, along with some kung-fu, but I really don't know much at all about striking arts. I can't discuss them intelligently. That's why I've come to you chaps. Where do you chamber your fists in your style and why? I've seen different methods of training and heard different reasoning for the different placements, but I wanted to start a discussion of these differences and hear all the reasons. Of course, some people (boxers and the like, more modern people) don't really chamber their fists for a strike, they just have a guard up all the time, but I'm interested in the traditional placement of your fists by your hips or armpits. Thanks, I hope this can provide some interesting discussion.

Michael Plank

Never question sensei boy,just do as your told.

Hector gomez

[John Lindsey]

Hector, I think this is a valid question and I am interesting in hearing more about it...

I agree John,this question has the potential to be a real great barnburner.

Hector Gomez

Not all the karate styles chamber the fist.

Among others, except fot a few basic warm-up drills, Ashihara Karate and Enshin do not emdorce the fist by the hip or ribs.

[Steven Malanosk]

Hello,

CHAMBER, is the position, from which a blow or technique comes from.

As a standard basic in GoJu, we chamber high, next to the pectoral, as opposed to the popular hip chamber of the Shuri Te oriented systems.

In actuality, a chamber, is the position which capacitates the next movement in a scenerio. So there are many variations, situation dictating the rule.

Capacitation, is a better word, when not dealing with KIHON or basic movement, but actual flow of technique in sequential execution.



Me, I like sleepin, specially in Molly's CHAMBER. But here I am in prison. Here I am with ball and chain yeah! Whisky in the Jaro, METALLICA

Chambering seems to have several layers of distinct usage. The practice in kata to develop the technique energy flow more crisply.

First, it contributes to a reciprocal motion of striking.

Second, the retracting hand can be a grabbing and pulling hand. allowing the extruding hand to strike, throw, etc.

Third, the retracting hand carries one heck of a slicing motion to tear up an opponent or to slice across any limb being offered, while it retracts to chamber.

Fourth, the retracting hand into chamber is actually a very simple secret. You've been grabbed from the rear and you're blasting back with a rearward elbow strike....oooops I let the cat out of the bag. The location of the chamber seems to indicate a preference where the rearward elbow strike lands.

Fifth, a friend in the Chinese arts maintains the area of the lower chamber is actually a blocking position to keep from being struck in that area.

Those system which don't use chambering in kata (or even don't use kata) may not choose to use any of the above. Their choice. But they all work for me. And I always feel what you don't practice, you may not be actually able to execute.

All other forms of chambering, are discrete between my wife and myself.

Sincerely,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

[Sochin]

I was told / or read somewhere that the waist chamber came in with the notion of using the whip of the waist snapping to the front to "throw" the fist out, creating speed and power. I forget who they attributed this method of punching too as the inovator.

[CEB]

Originally posted by Steven Malanosk


Me, I like sleepin, specially in Molly's CHAMBER. But here I am in prison. Here I am with ball and chain yeah! Whisky in the Jaro, METALLICA

I prefer Thin Lizzy.

[Steven Malanosk]

Yup, gotta give the Black Irishman his props.

I figured most where not old enough to remember.

[Ron Rompen]

As someone already pointed out, in Goju Ryu we chamber high. However, when I started in MA, I was studying Hap Ki Do, and we were taught to chamber low, near the waist.

[Michael Plank]

So Goju Ryu and Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu (I talked to my uncle, a Yondan in Shorin Ryu about that one) tend to chamber up under the arms (am I correct in believing that these are the two oldest extant schools of Karate?) while newer schools seem to have dropped the to the hips chamber or moved it away altogether? It seems like there must be advantages and disadvantages to wherever you put your hands. Like I say, this is pretty much an academic question for me, since I don't really train striking arts, and I would obviously always do what Sensei told me. Out of general curiousity and self-betterment, though, I am really interested in what you guys have to say on the subject.

This is less related to this site, but do any of you know how various kung fu and other Chinese styles chamber?

Thanks again,

Mike "Never questions Sensei" Plank

Give this one a shot....if you have to chamber.

For maximization of power and directness to target, chamber your fist here: find where the elbow touches your body when your arm hangs down by your side with the shoulder relaxed.

Now, stand in front of a wall, and mark a few targets on it. Punch *very* slowly at each target from chamber positions varying from up high, down low, or where the elbow touches your body.

I believe you'll find that chambering where the elbow touches is the way that feels better in terms of relaxation of shoulder muscles and directness of fist trajectory.

John Georgas

[Steven Malanosk]

The same variables exist from style to style in the Chinese martial arts. Incidentally, GoJu Ryu IS an extrapilation, of Chinese Fukien Chuan Fa.

[Tatsu]

Chambering is for arm flexibilty and tendon training. It is prevalent in many Shaolin based systems, and as a matter of fact, in Chinese styles like Shaolin Luohan Chuan the chamber is low. I doubt that there is a correlation between the age of a style and chambering method.

This is actually a complicated training device. Enhanced structural "ki" is dependent upon how high, low or far back you chamber. Chambering is an integral tool in teaching arm controls and other Tuite techs. Chambering also teaches one to keep your elbows in and not wing your punches. There is much more to this, but I don't feel like typing up a novellete, so I'll leave it at that.

BTW, Matsubayashi Shorin is not the oldest style of ShuriTe, nor is it the youngest. I think Nagamine Soke adopted the high chambering methods of one of his teachers, Choki Motobu. When fighting nobody ever chambers unless they are none-too-swift. 99% of karateka adopt a traditional boxing "on-guard" position. Those styles that don't train in chambering are usually modernized Japanese systems that don't include Okinawan Tuite in their teaching curriculum. I don't think that learning to chamber was ever interpreted as a fighting position, but more of a training device. If your style doesn't teach you chambering then your probably just doing kickboxing.