Headbutt

"My friends response was to turn towards the attack, grab his neck pull him down and in and head butt his nose.
So at this point in the story, I ask her if she kneed him in the balls and finished with an elbow, you know finished him off She looks up at me with her black and blue eye brow(hey she was drunk) and says "there was no need". I go "what do mean no need". She says "blood was pouring out of his nose like a water faucet",and "He was just standing there holding his nose, he was done". His friends came and hustled him out of the bar. I wonder what his version of the story was to his friends?.
"
I was wondering what you all thought of the headbutt as a self defense tool, both in terms of stopping power, and also, looking at self defense as a way of avoiding injury to yourself (including injury inflicted on yourself by your techniques) ?

I know some people like it but I've often been told (for instance, by my judo sensei, who studied judo while he was in England in WW2 and teaches what's basically WW2 combatives with some judo to the beginning students)that it shouldn't be used as a main technique because it could injure you at least as much as your attacker. And that in most circumstances there is a better technique.

Nice forum everyone!

I agree with your instructor. Strikes with the back of the head to defend against a rear bearhug are fine (there is a proper way to do them), but anything else is showmanship or desperation. Gene

Welcome to E-budo Ben. That was my post that you quoted, so I will give you my take on nutting(head butting). First of all, Im surprised with your teachers experience teaching(WW2 combatives) that this is postion on "nutting", especially in england? Iv seen footage inside/outside of soccer games taken by close circut t.v and the head butt is very common and very effective. But thats okay ,every is intitled to have a differnt take on these things.
If properly done, I cant think of a safer, more effective naked hand or naked head in this case techneque. Nothing says "please step away from me" like a nut to the nose. As far as hurting your self. Like my friend did. Her injury was a bump on her eye brow, the attackers injury, a smashed nose which may or may not require sugery to repair. Do you think he would want to do it again.I know if given the same circustances she would. Its also important to realize my friend who was three sheets to the wind, did this instintually in a split second.Damn impressive if you ask me . After the event she didnt even know she had a bruise(which turned into a sexy black eye) untill one of her friends told her. And you have to understand my friend had had minimal training, basically watching me teach it in my back yard to students.
The ideal nut from a frontal attack is to use the crown of the head(hairline) if done right it is more than a match for the nose(the ideal target). However the temple, the neck are also decent and safe to hit(for you). As far as injury to your self, you could miss judge your nut and hit to low which would cut your forhead with his teeth. Of course his front teeth will at that point be broken, perhaps imbedded into you forehead. If the attacker had time I guess he could drop his head and that it would be "nut on nut". However, like most things in self defense timing postioning and the set up must be right.
The top side of the head as well as the rear is also very effective good for multibal attackers that have closed in from the sides or behind. Just remember to close your eyes on contact and keep your tounge to the roof of your mouth.
If you plan to incorperate the nutt in self defense I suggest neck strengthing exercises and regular practice on nutting. Get a smooth ball the size of the average head, I use rythmic gymastic ball my self. The easiest way is to place the ball on the ground get on your knee's and "gently" press your forhead agaist the ball. With daily practice , In not time your neck will be strong like bull.

Regards

Gregory Rogalsky

[tmanifold]

The trick is to butt with the hair line instead of snapping the head down as if you were nodding. The latter can work if you are a fair bit shorter than the other fellow but the butt is safer. Just grab the neck and pull him towards you as you explode up and at his face usign your legs for power. I know one fellow who has used as his "Finisher" many times. It is CQC at it finest if you can pull it off.

[Joseph Svinth]

The motion is almost exactly like doing a squat. Step in, then raise straight up from underneath. No neck strain at all, if you do it right. As for the tactical value, even in slow motion, during training, it has a tendency to repair deviated septums, if you have them, and give them if you don't.

For how to use them against moving targets that are shooting back, watch Roberto Duran films.

[Kevin73]

I think that the headbutt (like alot of other MA techniques) has gotten a bad rap from Hollywood. When most hear of a head butt they think of the movie one where you bring your head WAY back and then snap it forward like a violent sneeze.

Too much time on that and alot of time for mistakes to lead to injury. I like the headbutt BUT I make sure that they don't wipe their head around like that

[Jock Armstrong]

The headbutt is an extremely effective close combat tech. As has been explaine alreadt, the forward headbutt [mae atama uchi] is delivered with the top part of the forehead, on the hairline. It doesn`t hurt the head and is VERY hard. The movement is actually quite short, driven by the neck and shoulders. Targetting is usually the problem. Nailing the nose, eyebrow or cheekbone is recommended- nutting the top of the enemy`s head or forehead is a pointless experience. One way to ensure the correct impact area is to grab the baddie by placing your hands on the sides of his neck so that his ears are between your thumb and forefinger and execute a kind of vertical kake uke, thus lifting his face up. This is actually easier than it sounds. Side butts and rear butts work well in certain grapple situations too. I`ve even seen it used on a guy`s chest. [he was a lot taller than my buddy]. Worked like a charm. While the baddie was wheezing and clutching his sternum, my friend spun him round and with collar and belt escorted him from the establishment.
You can practice butting on punch mitts. Its like any tech- practice makes perfect.

So the main points I'm taking are:

1. Get inside.

2. Get your center of gravity low enough so you can use large muscle groups to provide the power.

3. The target should be arced over you so you can go in a short linear motion more or less straight up. Feel free to hold thier head there.

4. jaw shut, eyes closed on impact.

5. Practice (business as usual, heh) and strenghten the neck.

Should the neck be straight with chin straight out, or should the chin be tucked?

Thanks guys

[Jock Armstrong]

You have to tuck your chin in order to lead with your forehead. If you lead with your chin you`ll just break your nose. Think abot it- visualise.......

There is a guy called Luciano Silvera who was a real thug when he was young. He has a great video from Paladin Press and his own forum on the AOL boards.

He said once that he found the head butt to be a great way to stop a fight before it started. Pre-emptive strikes did not start with our current resident.

The method he would use would be to lay his hand on the guy's shoulder when he knew blows were going to be thrown as if he was trying to reason with the guy. Then he would slip the hand behing the neck, pull the guy in with it while ducking his chin to his chest and target the area between the eyebrows and nose. The hand seems to help the targeting.

Someone else stated that the big fear is to nail the mouth and get cut on the teeth. The mouth of a dog is cleaner than that of a human.

Mind you, I do not claim to have tried this out in person. I am a pussycat and no one has any trouble with me. I am just trying to pass along what I heard as best I can remember it.

[Yojimbo558]

Hi there,

Headbutts are fine...as has been stated you want to be sure that you strike them where about the hairline is...this point is one of the hardest parts of the skull.

Your friend did ok...but her bruised eyebrow is a sign of hitting with the wrong spot...if she'd messed up and hit him with her forhead things could have been quite different. Behind your forhead is your frontal sinus...and I've seen people who think that they know how to headbutt...strike with their forhead and either stun themselves or give themselves a tko.

Another factor when doing the headbutt would be shrugging your shoulders to help protect your neck.

Eric

[Mark Barlow]

A capoeria instructor I watched referred to a headbutt as using the "Big Knuckle". My jujitsu sensei taught the headbutt as both a pre-emptive strike to stop the fight before it begins and a weapon to be used when grappling, especially in a tight clinch.

I've also seen it done poorly and do more damage to the user than the target.

"You got the head the head, you got the man"

Its about time someone mentioned grappling in this thread. Thanks Mark. Grapplers use every part of the body and consider the head as a fifth appendage. Thats why they spend so much time getting bridging for conditioning and controll of the head in the fight. One meathod is to position yourself so that your head(hairline) is use 90 degree's to the side of the opponents head, with your hands on the other side of the opponents head hold keeping eveything snug. Imagine a T-bone crash thats crushes a hard boiled egg.. More often than not its the top of the head that finds it way behind the other guys ear or in the temple. Especially good from side mount. Get everything lined up with your legs driving and the arms pulling and it will make the opponents head feel like its going to pop like a blackhead not to mention the kink it will put in the neck.

"I crush your head, I crush your head"

Regards

hello,

re: the "big knuckle" - check out an IKF article interviewing Dennis Newsome on the african art of headbutting called testa. i scanned it and put up to my site:

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/52/testa.html

also, there was a good series of posts on r.m-a a few years ago which i archived to my site on headbutting by Gerald Moffatt

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/rma/gmhead.html

HTH.

[Jay Vail]

I can relate something about the head butt's effects. A friend of mine was on the receiving end of a head butt during a bar fight when he was in the Navy. It happened so fast, he said, that he didn’t have any time to react or defend against it. The guy’s forehead struck my friend on the nose. My friend said that the blow was so powerful and so painful that he went straight to the floor and was finished. His nose was shattered and he had to have reconstructive surgery to put it back together.