Kendo And Kumdo

[IZA]

What are similarities and differences between Kendo and Kumdo?
Are they same? or Kumdo have evolved?
I would really be happy for any information.

[Shimura]

What is Kumdo? Is that the Korean version of fencing/sword play?

[gendzwil]

This topic has been beaten to death before, just search for it. In the vast majority of cases kumdo==kendo.

[glad2bhere]

Dear Neil:

I'm with you on this one. I am sure that this website certainly must have archived strings on this. If they don't I KNOW that SWORD FORUM INTERNATIONAL has archived material as I have written a few responses along this line. I am also considering putting together a definitive "boiler plate" post much as I did to quiet down the many questions about "what is Hapkido?". However, the most important reason I can think for NOT answering such a much-asked question is that part of the reason one has the Internet (IMVVHO) is that folks might learn how to find what they are looking for. I don't mean any offense to anyone but such commonly asked questions can be satisfied by many FAQ sections on many these same popular Nets or by checking in on one of the more specialized Nets. Otherwise the result is not unlike a person who goes into the library and wants the librarian to do the work for them. I think your response was a good call.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[IZA]

Before i posted this question, i was able to go over several Kumdo sites, and what i found out somtimes confuses me about the actual origin of Kumdo. Some folks would say that its just a Korean word for Kendo and its exactly the same, some would say that its different art that already evolved, because the Kendo introduced by the Japanese was merge into an ancient form of Korean sword form. Which is which? Rather confusing esp to me who is not knowlegable about either Kendo or Kumdo. I was just trying to ask for any opinion

Anyway thank you Bruce for your very kind response.

[IZA]

Is the tenouchi of both Kendo and Kumdo the same?
Does both Kendo and Kumdo have the same striking techniques? breathing? footwork? Is the kata bieng practice have same movements? or is it change? or the difference is only the name given by the Koreans? I was kind of hoping for people that has the experience on both Kumdo and Kendo, to answer this.

[glad2bhere]

Dear Isagani:

Now, this I am willing to help you with since you have obviously done some digging.

For about 85-90% of the Kumdo practitioners what they train in is essentially Kendo. In fact, GM Seo, who started the World Kumdo Assn out of Bettendorf, Iowa was one of the 6 founding members of the Korea Kumdo Assn which is a branch of the International Kendo Federation. These Kumdo practitioners train for competition using hogu and juk-to just as do the Japanese players. The members of the IKF all use the same forms and compete by the same rules. Both also have roots in Kum Bup ("sword method"; Jap- "ken-jutsu"). The Korean method tends to be a bit heavier in its sparring but this can also be attributed to different teaching approaches.

The other 10-15% of Kumdo practitioners use the term "kumdo" as it has become a kind of generic label for Koreans who practice swordwork. However, where the Japanese sword is pretty much standardized to the Katana, the Koreans have a heritage that includes at least four variations of sword. Each variations has different form work, and over time some material has been modified such that the same forms are often performed with the same two-handed short sword throughout. The oldest of these forms are BON KUK GUM BUP and CHOSON SE BUP which traditionally can be traced back to at least the 16th century and the WU BEI SHI written by Mao, Yuan-I. Before that-- who knows?

As far as other confusing bits, many Korean practiioners also use the Japanese hakama simply because it is easier to find a well-made hakama for regular training than han-bok. The same is true of shin kum which have been, until recently, commonly purchased from Japan or China simply because the Japanese katana architecture is more readily available. Hope this helps.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[IZA]

I see

thank you very much for the information. It really hepls lot in regards to my inquiry.

again thank you!

[Lan Nguyen]

In Kumdo, there is no Sonkyo
In Kendo, there is Sonkyo

What happen when two meet like in KWC?

Terminology for Men, Kote, Do in Kendo are different in Kumdo. Is it still ok for Kumdo to kiai in their own term during the match against Kendo?

[glad2bhere]

Dear Lan:

To the best of my knowledge (I don't do competition) there has never been any problem between Korean competitors and their Japanese counterparts. When it comes to the sport application everything is pretty much IKF, I think.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[KillerB]

Kumdo, for all the fabricated revisionist history, was introduced to Korea by the Japanese during the years preceding and during its colonization of Korea.
Many of us here in Korea feel embarassed by the ludicrous claim by senior Korea Kumdo Association officials that Kumdo, as it is practiced today using shinai and bogu, is actually Korean.
Sure, we might have made significant contributions to the Japaneses knowledge of steelworking and warfare. But, that was a long time ago(before 1000 AD). It's like arguing that since man first discovered fire on the African continent, all the world's cooking today is, in fact, African cuisine.
This attitude(overcompensated inferiority complex) is common among the older people born during Japanese rule and treated to feel like second class citizens. For those of us born without such chips on our shoulders, this outlook feels warped and petty.

[KillerB]

Considering, however, the atrocities committed, as policy with official sanctions, by the Japanese government(slave labor, government-organized gang-rapes, etc.), it's easy to understand how anti-Japanese sentiments could still run deep, even half a century later.
As such, it has been a struggle to make Kendo(or Kumdo), with its uniquely Japanese flavor, popular in Korea. This is another reason why KKA is trying to erase traces of Japanese heritage from Kumdo.
There are a number of examples; no sonkyo(Koreans don't bow like this, ever), banning of hakamas from official events(if you wear a hakama to a shinsa, you'll fail by default), different-colored flag for matches, no iaido(which is based on the "structure and manipulation of the Japanese sword").
This policy of denial has led to a number of interesting results.
One is the absense of any authentic, legitimate organization or body to learn iaido from. Instead, we have a number of guys teaching "real-combat sword-fighting", "genuine traditional swordsmanship" and other such nonsense.
Another result stemming from KKA's messing with its history is that any charlatan with a library card can check out WU BEI SHI and MU YE DO BO TONG JI to look at the pictures in it of BON KUK GUM BUP and CHOSON SE BUP and proclaim his own traditional Korean swordsmanship. A style that was lost for centuries but learned my master X from a mysterious old man in a black robe atop a snowy mountain peak(sounds like Bad Budo, doesn't it?).
There was a court case a while back involving of a fairly well-known(you've probably heard of them) style of "traditional Korean swordsmanship". They put out candles and cut paper with their bokken and do other happy horseshit to display their mastery of the sword. The founding members were sueing each other over the proprietary rights to the style's name. In sworn testimony,
one of the founders(a so-so famous actor) admitted that their system was, in fact, not a 2000-year-old stylehanded down from the warriors of Gogurye, but concocted in their rooms alfter looking at some books while they were in high school.
Would be funny if there weren't so many gullible people learning it.

[KillerB]

This particular brand of "traditional Korean swordsmanship" is big on marketing, though.
It appeals to the country's nationalist sentiments(even though it's not actually "traditional Korean swordsmanship")
It's even gone so far as to fabricate a load of !!!!!!!! that legitimate historians have never heard of. One of the more ludicrous - a shinai is made up of 4 slats of bamboo because puny Japanese swordsmen were too weak for the 6-slat jukto used by the mighty Gogurye warriors. Ha-ha.
You can also receive an instructor's license in several months.
There was even an article in a regional newspaper about how this style made financial sense since you could open your dojang so soon and make money allowing you to quit your office job.
What can I say? There's self-employed and there's self-employed.

[IZA]

i think you forgot to write your real name.

[glad2bhere]

Dear ??????:

Thanks for your thoughts on Kumdo vis Kendo and perhaps there is much to be acknowledged in what you have written. The fact is though, I think it is important to remember that much of what you have written does not hold for the entire Kumdo population and this is part of the problem. I have no problem with the fact that Kendo/Kumdo was introduced in 1896-7 by the Butokukai-Choson, or that Japanese sword was included in the curriculum for Korean police cadets at the Police Academy, or that Japanese military who trained in Toyama-ryu may well have brought their sword training to Korea before and during the 2nd WW. In short I would be foolish to deny the influence of Japanese sword on Korean MA. In fact it continues to this day with such people as GM Lim Hyun-Su, the noted head of the Jung Ki Kwan of Hapkido teaching a hybred art of Korean sword and Japanese Iaido (Eishin Ryu I think).

What you have not touched on is that people who practice Kumdo not directly related to Japanese Kendo include the Kyong Dang, various forms of Tai Chi Chuan and Chuan Fa, and obscure sword forms such as the Seon style. There are also reconstructed versions such as the Hae Dong Kumdo people who, while they have some problems organizationally, have many dedicated members seeking to reveal and perpetuate Korean sword in its own right.

Of course you are right about the many injuries that Japan incurred on Korea in the name of expansioism and colonialism. However, we are discussing swordwork here. It would be of some help if you could pitch-in and help reveal what Korean sword IS rather than spending more time on what it is NOT. Just a thought.

Best Wishes,

Bruce