4 foot hanbo

[conor bourke]

has anybody heard of the 4 foot staff refered to as a hanbo? hanbo being half a bo and the full bo being rokushakubo which is about 8 feet. Am i misinformed?

thanks
conor bourke

[David T Anderson]

Nope...the rokushakubo is a 'six-foot' staff...half of which is a hanbo or a walking cane length. The four foot staff is a jo, of course. I'm not sure if the eight-foot staff has a specific name...

It's probably best not to get hung up on the exact sizes or lengths of staves. How they are carried and used is more to the point. Hasn't everybody got the message that technique is more important than size?

[conor bourke]

well how they are used is in relation to their size. a three foot staff is used differently to a fingerstaff and differently again to a six foot staff. I was just enquiring as to what systems name what tools. The muso jikiden ryu refers to the 4 foot as a hanbo. but yes, it is pointless to get hung up on terminology rather than technique

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by conor bourke
...the full bo being rokushakubo which is about 8 feet. Am i misinformed?

Just remember that roku means "six;" a shaku is, coincidentally almost exactly the same as an English "foot" (about 12 inches or 30cm); and bo, of course, means "staff."

Although hanbo literally means "half staff," I suppose the term could be used to mean "shorter-than-standard staff." I've never seen a four-foot staff called a hanbo though.

[Mekugi]

Not to be contrary, but ALMOST is the key word here. This morning I went over to parents-in-law's house to measured a room for custom made tatami with my American tape measure. Afterwards I sat with my father in law to do the conversion in kanjaku measures and I was suprised it was off by a great bit. The Shaku is approximately 11.93 inches, I know now!

I justed wanted to share the little curiousity I ran into.

-Russ

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
Just remember that roku means "six;" a shaku is, coincidentally almost exactly the same as an English "foot" (about 12 inches or 30cm); and bo, of course, means "staff."

Although hanbo literally means "half staff," I suppose the term could be used to mean "shorter-than-standard staff." I've never seen a four-foot staff called a hanbo though.

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Mekugi
...I justed wanted to share the little curiousity I ran into.

I learned a "curious" item about tatami in class the other day. The size of "standerd" tatami has been shrinking over the centuries!

It all goes back to the practice of measuring rooms, and by extension houses and lots, by the number of "mats" they can contain. (lots are measured in "two-mat" squares that I can't recall the name of right now. Tsubo? Something like that.)

Anyway, in a "keeping up with the Suzukies" race, people started ordering slightly smaller mats so they could squeeze in a few more and impress others with their mat count. Today tatami are only about 75% the size they were in the 17th century, according to my teacher.

I thought you might get a kick out of that tidbit.

[Mekugi]

From what I undestand:

The modern tatami have shrank over the years namely due to the space crunch in the cities. Thus, smaller tatami has become a standard for modern housebuilding.

Tatami, as a unit of measure (especially rooms), are not/was not totally specific because the tatami size vary greatly from place to place and region to region. Even more so maker to maker! Old style tatami come in several different sizes, testifying that the measure of a room by tatami depended entirely on the tatami size that was being used...confusing....head spinning...room...blurry...

Strange but true!


-Russ

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
I learned a "curious" item about tatami in class the other day. The size of "standerd" tatami has been shrinking over the centuries!

It all goes back to the practice of measuring rooms, and by extension houses and lots, by the number of "mats" they can contain. (lots are measured in "two-mat" squares that I can't recall the name of right now. Tsubo? Something like that.)

Anyway, in a "keeping up with the Suzukies" race, people started ordering slightly smaller mats so they could squeeze in a few more and impress others with their mat count. Today tatami are only about 75% the size they were in the 17th century, according to my teacher.

I thought you might get a kick out of that tidbit.

[fifthchamber]

Hi all...
I think I remember reading somewhere that the Tatsumi Ryu use a weapon that was around 4 feet long (Or 4 shaku...) and labelling it as a "Hanbo"...Try reading through the Koryu.com books for Mr. Liam Keeley's articles...
I think...
But anyways...A "Bo" is a staff...So a half staff would depend more on the original length of the "Bo"....If it was a Rokushakubo then the Hanbo would be a Sanshakubo....But it would depend on the original surely?
Anyways...
Regards.

There is no 4 foot hanbo. A stick about 4 feet plus 2 inches in length is the archetypal jo. But jos can be anywhere from just under 5 feet to the length of a cane or walking stick usually.

All hanbos are about 3 feet in length and are sometimes called jos. A hanbo could be a jo but a jo can not be a hanbo. A hanbo can be 4 feet tall if your style uses an 8 foot staff. Although there are martial arts that use staves as long as 10 feet, I've never heard of any from Japan/Okinawa region. Eh. . .

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by shonuff
A hanbo could be a jo but a jo can not be a hanbo.

Eh? If a hanbo can be a jo, then said "jo" is the hanbo.

Originally posted by shonuff
There is no 4 foot hanbo.

Originally posted by shonuff
All hanbos are about 3 feet in length...

Originally posted by shonuff
A hanbo can be 4 feet tall...

Did you forget to take your medication this morning, or do you always contradict yourself?



____________
Brian Owens

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by shonuff
There is no 4 foot hanbo.

In the book Koryu Bujutsu, by Koryu Books, in the interview by Liam Keeley, he writes that the Tatsumi-ryu had a 4 foot hanbo.

[Scott Irey]

Originally posted by conor bourke
The muso jikiden ryu refers to the 4 foot as a hanbo.

I am curious about that muso jikiden ryu? Never heard of it....I assume it is different form the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu...could you elaborate?

Regards,

[conor bourke]

the muso jikiden ryu from what i remember predates muso jikiden eishin ryu. It is a complete weapon ryu ie bo, hanbo, ken, tanjo, tanto etc. It makes up the weapons system/syllabus within our ju jutsu system. Supposedly there is a heavy chinese influence on the bo work. Draeger mentions the style in Classical Budo.A man called Stephen Chan teaches Muso jikiden in england.
Check out the Hanshi no Iinkai for a possible contact.

Conor Bourke

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Scott Irey
I am curious about that muso jikiden ryu? Never heard of it....I assume it is different form the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu...

Unless I am mistaken, Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu is Muso Jikiden Ryu.

Hasegawa Eishin was a leading figure in and shaper of the ryu, but the ryu had been in existance for many generations prior to his arrival. Forgive me for being vague, but I'm at a friend's house and don't have my references handy, but I believe he was the ninth (or even ninteenth?) headmaster.

Naturally before his tenure it was called just Muso Jikiden Ryu. In the years since its founding the ryu has gone by Muso Jikiden Ryu, Jikiden Ryu, Hasegawa Eishin Ryu, Eishin Ryu, etc.

The current name of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu was adopted by one of the recent headmasters (Oe?) in deference to the tremendous influence of Hasegawa Eishin while still acknowledging its older roots.

I hope I am not too far off here, but that's my understanding.

[Scott Irey]

The history is a little different than you posted Brian. I sent you a PM.

Thanks for the information Conor. I had never heard of a Muso Jikiden Ryu being practiced today. I was under the impresion that the style had dissapeared before the Meiji restoration.

I checked the hanshi no iinkai but could find no information other than the name you gave me "Stephan Chan" Hanshi 8th dan.

If your school has a web-site I would be interested in checking it out.

Regards,