Question about Sanshin no Kata

[Tuck]

Maybe someone out there can help me with this one. I have always been told that Takamatsu passed on the Sanshin no kata to his students so that they could train without a partner. Sanshin no Kata consists of the following forms:

Chi no kata
Sui no kata
Ka (Hi) no kata
Fu no kata
Ku no kata

Armed with this knowledge I figured that there were only 5 forms. However, now I am told that there are actually 15 forms (3 versions of each). Given who told me this I am assuming this is correct. Could someone please explain to me (or point me in the right direction of someone who can) what the other forms are. Thanks in advance.

Jason Tucker

[BigJon]

Chi no kata (Henka)
etc.
I am told there is more than 3 ways to do each one. I hate to be this guy, but ASK YOUR TEACHER.



(please dont hold my responses against me.)

[IKE]

Sanshin no kata=Shoshin no kata, Gogyo no kata, Goshin no kata

[Terry Ham]

I have always been told that Takamatsu passed on the Sanshin no kata to his students so that they could train without a partner.

As I understand it, Hatsumi Sensei is the only student that Takamatsu Sensei passed the Gogyo no Kata ( Aka. Sanshin no kata ) on to.

In the Tenchijin Ryaku no Maki, it is listed just as Ike, has it listed;

SHOSHIN GO KATA, GO GYO NO KATA, GOSHIN NO KATA

The above are all the same forms. Each is just a different way to practice the same forms. Shoshin Go Kata is done with out moveing the legs from what I have seen.

Gogyo no Kata is the most common method practiced, and the Goshin no Kata ( *Note* in the Tenchijin Ryaku no Maki the goshin no kata apears later on in the Ku kamae section as a way to apply the different Kamae ) I understand is how to APPLY the forms...

I think that the Sanshin should be trained just as you would any other Kata, Shu-Ha-ri or Train the form properly in a kihon way, then break the form apart, find out why it works the way it does... then forget the form or as Hatsumi Sensei says dont get stuck on it, be Zero.

I hope this helps.

[Tuck]

Originally posted by Jon G.

I hate to be this guy, but ASK YOUR TEACHER.

(please dont hold my responses against me.)

It was my teacher who told this to me. However, we have only been taught the one form. He really did not say much more than that, and told me it was my homework and to look it up. The only real method I have of research is the net, so I thought I would give it a go. Don't worry, I would never hold your response against you. That would likely be my first response as well.

Thanks Terry, that is helpful.

Jason Tucker

[BigJon]

Thanks Terry, that is helpful.

No worries, But me name is Jon.

[BigJon]

It was my teacher who told this to me. However, we have only been taught the one form.

Here I go again,...(no not the Whitesnake song)
Chances are , that your "one form" is still different than my dojo's "one form". Whoever the shihan/shidoshi of your group will teach you these as he/she learned them. (that does not mean that, IF you catch a shihan doing chi no waza...moving backwards instead of forwards, that either is 'wrong'.)

-It means that they(teacher in question) learned the kihon/gogyo at a particuliar time period. It sounds funny, but...you can tell how long a teacher has been training, by his/her gogyo... and the emphasis.

[Tuck]

No worries, But me name is Jon.

Actually I was thanking Terry Ham who also posted. He was being helpful, so I thought I would let him know (as were you, don't get me wrong). I guess I kind of made it a bit confusing. Sorry about that.

Originally posted by Jon G.
[b]Here I go again,...(no not the Whitesnake song)
Chances are , that your "one form" is still different than my dojo's "one form". Whoever the shihan/shidoshi of your group will teach you these as he/she learned them. (that does not mean that, IF you catch a shihan doing chi no waza...moving backwards instead of forwards, that either is 'wrong'.)

-It means that they(teacher in question) learned the kihon/gogyo at a particuliar time period. It sounds funny, but...you can tell how long a teacher has been training, by his/her gogyo... and the emphasis.

Very true. I have been to other dojos and observed Sanshin performed differently (i.e. stepping backwards). However, I am fairly sure that this is not one of the forms my teacher was talking about. I was hoping a senior practitioner may have some idea. It seems to me that Terry likely hit the answer. However, if anyone wants to confirm his answer I would be grateful. Thanks.

Jason Tucker

[IKE]

I will confirm it since I answered first. Wheres the love Tuck?

[Tuck]

Originally posted by IKE
I will confirm it since I answered first. Wheres the love Tuck?

Sorry about that, I did not mean to forget you. Here is some long distance love coming your way....... Did you feel it? Give it some time, it may be delayed due to time zone differences and border crossings. Thanks for your help.

Jason Tucker

P.s. If the "Love" should never arrive, please substitute it with this dancing banana. Nothing can beat a dancing banana.

[Spunky]

I recently realized that I couldn't think of what the "three" of "san shin" refers to. When I asked, the answer I got was that one way of studying these arts is that there is a sanshin to everything, literally three ways of performing them. In turn, there is a sanshin to each of those as well.

So I was told to try looking at the five forms in three different ways and see what I come up with. There are the three that IKE and Terry listed. Also try doing them with three timings, or in three different ryuha, three different weapons, etc, and then try three variations within each of those.

So in a way it simply becomes a way of looking at things in a new light, which lends new significance to another translation I've been told of sanshin: "the heart of a three year old" This clearly carries well beyond the practice of these forms.

[Gakkousei]

I'll be glad when i finally get into full-time formal training, so i'll actually know what you guys are talking about.

[BigJon]

I was hoping a senior practitioner may have some idea.

sorry for wasting the o2 on it.

I'll be glad when i finally get into full-time formal training, so i'll actually know what you guys are talking about

Are you the one, who was sticking up for one the many "self assured" neo groups. Didnt you change your log in name, 2-3 times after different arguments with Bujinkan practitioners?

( I am just curious, I seem to remember an Eric who stuck up for one the fantasy ninja groups out there...)

[Gakkousei]

Yeah that would be me, at one of my idiotic periods in my life(notice i said ONE of...there were quite a few). I've come to terms with what i was doing and how i was behaving, so it's all behind me. Just water under the bridge. I pretty much dropped everything i "learned" and decided to start from square one. Still hanging around in square one at the moment, but hopefully that will change very very soon.

[tsurashi shondo]

Originally posted by Gakkousei
Yeah that would be me, at one of my idiotic periods in my life(notice i said ONE of...there were quite a few). I've come to terms with what i was doing and how i was behaving, so it's all behind me. Just water under the bridge. I pretty much dropped everything i "learned" and decided to start from square one. Still hanging around in square one at the moment, but hopefully that will change very very soon.

More training, less trolling.