An interesting idea: a Sword Arts Wiki

[Ken-Hawaii]

It strikes me (no pun intended) that e-Budo has all the makings of a really comprehensive martial arts wiki. For those of you not familiar with wikis, please browse to http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wiki_Sc...o_start_a_Wiki

Creating a Sword Arts Wiki would accomplish a lot of good things: (1) really basic questions could be pointed to a beginner's section, (2) more advanced questions & concepts could be discussed & then incorporated in an easily-browsed & -organized page, (3) those of us who are interested in researching new ideas & solutions can quickly & easily find references, & (4) any qualified person can add a page (well, so can unqualified people, but that's what moderators are for, right ?).

It's not that we can't search all the e-Budo forums right now, but there's no easy way to follow a single thread & compile ideas. I've contributed about a dozen pages to the Wikipedia, & find that it offers a really new way to collaborate & communicate. I've been an engineer for nearly four decades, & appreciate well-organized "encyclopedias" that help me target my efforts.

Comments? Suggestions? Someone who wants to take this on?

[Norbert Funke]

I like this idea, I am running my own wiki myself for all my family ideas. Its quite easy, all what it needs is a server and some of the wiki distros. I tried plone and mediawiki, both work great. But don't think that my bandwith of my home ISP connection could take on another wiki ;-). However, there are some free services such as Wikia.

[Chris Brown]

It sounds solid enough. For those of us who just manage to muddle through getting on here and posting, how could we best help out?

[Michael-H]

While I think the idea is great and that there certainly is enough material to create a specific sword arts wiki or an E-Budo wiki I think the related resources afforded by the wikipedia are superior.

It is rather easy to create a little separate galaxy of interrelated information on the wikipedia and as soon as you use something from related fields such as history, medicine, technology you can just link to an article about that by adding brackets.

And looking at the wikipedia articles on budo in general and koryu in particular there is much that could be enhanced by the crowd here at E-Budo (take kata for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kata).

We should also not forget the greater service to the world outside budo that we would be performing by expanding a more general resource like the wikipedia with our specialized knowlege. The problems with getting a dedicated server and maintaining software and hardware would dissapear as an extra bonus.

/M

[pgsmith]

Sorry to be the (seemingly) lone voice of dissent here, but I think it's a lousy idea. As I was informed many years ago, knowledge is worth what you pay for it. Competency in the sword arts is hard to come by, and takes many years of hard practice to attain. The background and information that goes with it comes as part of those years of effort. Years ago I asked questions of my senei that I was told to forget about since I wouldn't understand. Later, the answers to many of those questions have come to me through practice, and my sensei was correct at the time. I wouldn't have understood and he was right to not give me the answers I sought. If I had some of the answers that I was seeking at the time, I surely would have missed gaining true knowledge through preconceptions and misconceptions.

While technological knowledge is a good thing to have readily available, the koryu sword arts are not technological in nature. Answers to everything shouldn't be easily available. These are traditional arts that we are studying. I prefer to study them in the traditional way. Besides which, the more readily available information there is, the more imitation instructors you create because they will be able to read all the information and so delude themselves (and others) into thinking that they know what they're doing.

I give the idea a thumbs down!

[Bjørne Hoff]

Mr. Smith has some valid points, but I think a wiki could be a good thing.
I mean, it's not like we're going to reveal ryu secrets or something in it, but we could write helpful information like what weapons are taught in certain ryu, stuff like that.
Perhaps biographies on old masters like Miyamoto Musashi and such as well.
A lot of information you find on the net is tainted by anime and McDojos, so it would be good to have a bastion of true knowledge regarding such things.

[Norbert Funke]

Originally Posted by Bjørne Hoff

Mr. Smith has some valid points, but I think a wiki could be a good thing.
I mean, it's not like we're going to reveal ryu secrets or something in it, but we could write helpful information like what weapons are taught in certain ryu, stuff like that.

Thats my opinion too. The wiki (or put other technology here) can not replace the practice and other insights you gain from your sensei. But I would like to have a more organized repository of knowledge that is maintained by real experts. I have seen a lot of crap out there on the internet. It would be nice if the knowledge is more organized.

To Paul: I see your point, have not thought about it. Easily available knowledge makes it easier for instructor wannabies to open McDojos. Don't know yet how that could be prevented. But those bozos would probably open up a Dojo anyway.

[100110]

Are "sword arts" really so simple as to be neatly explicable, or discussed comprehensively? Who will explain the basics of swordsmanship? Do we start with seiza nobu iai, kumitachi, kendo, shiai? An easy answer is to pick specific schools & organizations [perhaps categorizing them under kendo, battojutsu, iaido, etc] and provide details about them - but there are plenty of sources for this already. Lumping all this info on to one website will make things easier, but that website will never, I think, be able to claim to be a definitive source. How many ryu, in obscure parts of Japan, remain unlisted out of choice or circumstance? If sogo bujutsu are listed, is it logical to exclude non-sword parts of the curricululm? Can we separate aikiken from the study of aikido as a whole?

As nice as it is to have reliable information on hand when searching around for legitimate instruction, it does no service to our wits to be coddled. The right information is out there, in one way or another, and can be found by anyone who is intelligent and perseverant enough. Another thing the wiki could do is list, synopsize and discuss these myriad resources. I wager that'll lead to more than a little conflict among contributors. Who decides how to interpret the book of five elements? List them all (I use 'all' loosely) - and readers will only be further confused. It's hard enough buying the book, finding a teacher, and training with a bokken in hand (not necessarily in that order).

Finally, although there are many practitioners around with plenty of experience, wisdom, knowledge, and generosity, there are an equal number who want sod-all to do with information technology beyond word of mouth and spare words brushed in ink. Yet it can be guaranteed that the average web-viewer will be automatically convinced that SAW is _the_ source... and as wonderfully informative, lively and inclusive as it may someday become, it will never be that. Maybe I am misinformed, but my understanding is that there is already a straightforward way to learn about sword arts. I'll look into it...

[Aozora]

Originally Posted by Ken-Hawaii

It strikes me (no pun intended) that e-Budo has all the makings of a really comprehensive martial arts wiki. ...

Comments? Suggestions? Someone who wants to take this on?

Ah, yes, that way we can bring the harmony and concurrance of ideas that is e-budo to the rest of the internet!

Sorry, Ken-H, in all seriousness, I just don't think I'd want to be a part of that. I can already see the pages being constantly edited erased and redone in ceaseless do vs. jutsu debates. Ugh. No thanks, but good luck on all that.

[gendzwil]

That's my problem with the Wiki - anyone can contribute and screw it up. I wrote a sword arts FAQ some years ago, it's not perfect but at least all the errors are legitimately mine. Google finds it pretty quick.

[renfield_kuroda]

I've just ended a pimpslap showdown on the Japanese wickipedia around the Mugairyu entry, with a guy who was hamon'd from us, then started his own ryu. Not worth the time, and not interested in spending even more time slapping down stupidity across teh internets.

Less typing, more training.

Regards,
r e n

[Ken-Hawaii]

Well, yeah, I would expect that there would be a bit of conflict on the Sword Arts Wiki - not many of us who are complete wallflowers & don't speak our minds. And there are certainly a few contributors who should be listened to more than others. Getting people like Karl Friday, Hyaku, & a bunch of other senseis to add content would be the ideal layout for SAW, but I kinda' doubt that will be how it evolves.

Hard to control the trolls, but Wikipedia appears to have that (generally) in hand, so I don't know why we couldn't do the same.

Norbert does have a good question: Who wants to be first? I've studied European fencing for 55 years, & taught as a fencing master for nearly 40 of those, so I'd be a good candidate for that type of input. But with less than a decade practicing MJER, & as a low-ranked dan, I'd want to be damn sure that my information is solid before I posted it!!

Here's an idea for an introduction. I've created a couple of four-page handouts (at Sensei's request) that my dojo uses to explain the basic concepts of iaido (& kendo) to potential students, & I'm certain that I'm not the only one who has done that. Why don't we all post our dojo handouts as the first iteration? Relatively non-combative, may be useful to people who don't have them, & it would give us a starting point to get the SAW underway.

Norbert, let me know if you'd like my file & I'll PM it (it's in PDF or PageMaker).

[Norbert Funke]

Originally Posted by Ken-Hawaii

... let me know if you'd like my file & I'll PM it (it's in PDF or PageMaker).

Sure thats a good starting point, but no rush. I already created a request for a wiki at wikia. They said it takes about 2-10 days to setup the space. So far I have a kind of scratchpad where I can start. How could you send me the file? Does the e-budo messages support attachments? Otherwise I'll send you my personal email address.

[Kaoru]

Originally Posted by Ken-Hawaii

It strikes me (no pun intended) that e-Budo has all the makings of a really comprehensive martial arts wiki. For those of you not familiar with wikis, please browse to http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wiki_Sc...o_start_a_Wiki

Creating a Sword Arts Wiki would accomplish a lot of good things: (1) really basic questions could be pointed to a beginner's section, (2) more advanced questions & concepts could be discussed & then incorporated in an easily-browsed & -organized page, (3) those of us who are interested in researching new ideas & solutions can quickly & easily find references, & (4) any qualified person can add a page (well, so can unqualified people, but that's what moderators are for, right ?).

It's not that we can't search all the e-Budo forums right now, but there's no easy way to follow a single thread & compile ideas. I've contributed about a dozen pages to the Wikipedia, & find that it offers a really new way to collaborate & communicate. I've been an engineer for nearly four decades, & appreciate well-organized "encyclopedias" that help me target my efforts.

Comments? Suggestions? Someone who wants to take this on?

This is a hugely excellent idea! As long as it's closely moderated if possible... Gotta keep out bad mis-information.

Kaoru