Yachigusa-ryu

[Stéphan Thériault]

Has anyone heard of the Yachigusa-ryu Aiki Bugei? There is an article by them on Aikido Journal, wich is where I came across them. When I looked at their web page my spidy sense went off. First the story sounds like a cross between mr. Angier's and that ninjutsu guy in Bloodsport. Then there is the pic of mr. Moro, he is wearing a kimono with a black t-shirt underneath, he also wears the "skirt" part of kendo armor. Anyhow this is their web site: http://yachigusaryu.com/

[Baio]

this was covered in the bad budo section

[Baio]

looks like it got removed or something, basically yachigusa is a japanese name no one has ever heard of, theres no hiroshi yachigusa mentioned on any census documents anywhere in the us, nor his son "jiro" or daughter who moro states is somewhere in tokyo. someone from ebudo looks up the name given for the daughter in tokyo and the person didn't exist.

[Saburo]

Yachigusa.

[spencer burns]

For whatever it is or isn't worth, Gary Moro has posted his comments on the AJ thread on the YR blog and is not interested in joining these discussion board.

For questions about Yachigusa-Ryu's provenance, I'd encourage you to read our History FAQ for starters.

In the end, there aren't many concrete answers; the school is what it is--with no proof of lineage.

Nobody is going to be convinced of anything new by futher Internet discussion.

Just to be OCD tho', the previous thread was in "Baffling Budo," not "Bad Budo."

Since this discussion came about from a link to the the essay Gary and I wrote about back pressure that was posted on the Aikido Journal front page, I would encourage people to read the other essays on principles he has written and think for themselves whether they are informative or confusing, derivative or original, worthwhile or blog-rants. Those (and other essays of varying interest) are available on our archive of blog posts.

(And just to mention: I'd post this on AJ, but their account creation is being more of a pain than I care to deal with).

[Walker]

In one of his final public announcements I recall Angier sensei saying that he leaves it to others to "pick over the bones."

Welcome to the party.

[Neil Yamamoto]

Wait, wait, if you take all the bones, how will I make a stock for tomorrows soup?!

One thing on the blog I do agree with, no one is going to change their minds on the topic, it's pretty one way or the other here.

By the way, it's Mr. ELIAS, not Mr. ELLIS

(But that line makes me think of Ellis Amdur in the movie MASH with a houseboy running around cleaning up after him, calling out "Mr. Ellis, Mr. Ellis, I shine shoes for you!"

[Stéphan Thériault]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I did not think to check the bad or baffling budo sections, since well frankly I never read those.

[Richard Elias]

We first met Gary Morrow in the early ‘90’s it was at the first Yanagi ryu seminar he attended, at Aikido of Diablo Valley (ADV). He showed up in a brand new black karate gi and black belt. During the lunch break we were at the same table and discussed martial arts and our varied experience. He spoke about his experience with kobudo weapons and kyushojutsu and asked John and I if we knew where to obtain a tinbe (a small hand held shield used in Okinawan arts, sometimes made from a turtle shell and used in conjunction with a short spear called a rochin). He said he had limited experience with sword but had learned quite a bit of spear from his teacher. There was no mention of jutte, tessen, naginata or hojojutsu. You think he would have if he did them since we do too, but whatever.

The next day he arrived with a hakama. I was in the dressing room with him when he was putting it on. He basically took all the straps and tied them in a bow, then rolled up the hakama around the straps til it was about four inches off the ground, whereas his gi pants went down to his feet. I asked him about the way he wore it and he told me “it’s the combat tie… my teacher taught it to me”. I told him I have seen many traditional ways of tying a hakama and that isn’t one of them. I later showed him how to wear it properly.

I would in the future show him how to tie an obi, the difference between a men’s kimono and a woman’s, how to put on a tasuke and various other things. The lessons usually started with him saying “could you show me how to do this, my teacher taught me a long time ago and I don’t remember, it’s been so long since I wore one of these things”. I usually just smiled to myself and showed him how.

The first time I went to his dojo he was hosting Angier sensei, it was a joint venture with ADV. The dojo walls were covered with Okinawan weapons, tonfa, nunchaku, sai, etc. etc. There were pictures of students in karate gi posing in karate stances, doing techniques with and without the aforementioned weapons. So Gary never studied karate… ok, I supposed he just “adopted” that also.

The next year we went the decor was significantly different. There were now bokken and jo on the walls, a naginata, and pictures of students in kimono and hakama, using knives and swords and doing techniques that are distinctly Yanagi-esque. His students arrived dressed in kimono and hakama, using twine for tasuke.

The following years saw them getting more and more Yanagi-like. I even had one of his students (Spencer) presuming to correct me on a sword draw that had come from us.

We always tolerated he and his students with amusement. He was always really nice and respectful and seemed eager to learn. It was just their little group so we didn’t care.
…………………………………………………………………………………………….

With regard to the content of his site, his art and his response to my previous statements…

The principles on the site are listed as “principles of Yachigusa ryu” not Yanagi ryu. Frankly that’s not giving credit when you list things you got from someone else as your own, regardless on how much you have elaborated on them, especially if you are calling them the same thing. They weren’t “your” principles, as you say in one of your essays, you are just using them as a basis to explain what you do. There’s a difference, those specific principles weren’t recognized in your system before you met Don Angier. Yes, science is science and all movements in martial arts can be defined by essentially the same principles. But not all systems are even aware of those particular principles or operate by them. You got those principles from Don Angier, not your teacher. If you were to rewrite Newton’s laws of physics and say they were Yachigusa principles of physics I think there would be an issue and people would call you on it.

As far as the photos and whatnot, and not being able to learn from video… Frankly Gary that’s BS. You won’t have learned it correctly to be sure, but many of the things you depict your students doing are distinctly Yanagi techniques (though notably not the Osoto gari), some of the examples taken directly from the videos of Yanagi ryu. Yanagi ryu has a unique look and flavor to it, even among other Japanese budo, it’s rather noticeable that you are copying it since virtually no extant ryuha do some things like we do. Just like if you were imitating Katori ryu it would be equally as noticeable.

Sword turn, walking the circle, our rainbow block, the seiza exercises and lay-over techniques, the jutte techniques. Sorry but you didn’t learn any of that from your teacher, that’s Yanagi ryu.

Gary, my personal issue is not that you “adopted” Yanagi ryu techniques and principles into your system, many have. And I don’t care at all about your lineage. It’s that you are imitating Yanagi ryu as much as possible and claiming you learned all this from your teacher, and doing so in public venues such as the internet. Saying Angier sensei just helped you to understand it, when it wasn’t there in the first place, or had a better way of doing it doesn’t change the fact that you are trying to do Yanagi ryu material and pass it off as your own. As you said, you didn’t learn these things directly, so you never got the okuden that goes with them, and there isn’t that much detail in the videos. It shows in how you have attempted to teach your students Yanagi ryu techniques as Yachigusa ryu. I and others have experienced this first hand. Your own student realized this when he came to our dojo and found how many “similarities” there were, and then realized Yanagi ryu had to be the source, but more precise and functional. It appears you have created Yanagi lite… just one calorie, not Yanagi enough. It was one thing when it was just you and your little group, but now it’s on the net and being spread unto public forums. Not acceptable, and thus my speaking out now.

Maybe you should fess-up and tell your students the truth so they don’t resent you later when they find out for themselves. Everyone else can make up their own minds.